I'm not sure what you did there, but that math isn't correct. The Model 3 long range battery size is about 75 kWh. So a 75kW power level would be 1C charging rate. 250kW is actually a 250/75 = 3.3333 C charging rate. That's why they don't push that for very long and it requires pretty active cooling.
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Model 3 Supercharge Throttling? To buy or not to buy.
- Thread starter Kamixus
- Start date
Good catch. I stand corrected. I confused the 350 volts for the kWh of the battery pack. Yes, they are pushing the envelope in that sense.
Hello, I have been dealing with the topic of reducing the charging power since the beginning of 2017 in Germany and driving a Model S75, which has been affected by the reduction in charging power for half a year now.
Since 2018, the user manual has clearly stated that the charging power is reduced if the DC is charged frequently.
For Model 3 you will find this passage on page 154 of the current operating instructions: 2020-04-07_0720
Regarding the reduction of the charging performance, I have only received unconfirmed reports from a fleet with around 400 Tesla Model 3 performance, which are currently all around 100,000 km mileage, almost always 100% charged on the Supercharger to 100% SOC.
Over 95% of these vehicles are said to have a charging capacity reduced to 100kW peak since they have traveled approximately 95,000km.
There are also other Model 3 owners who report about it.
However, despite extensive research, I still haven't received any confirmation.
Since the topic is discussed very emotionally and you are immediately hostile when you try to fathom it, I am not further here.
So what I can say in summary:
Officially, the user manual state that there is a reduction in the charging power if you charge the Supercharger too often. There are supposed to be vehicles where this is the case, but there are also vehicles with a similar mileage where this is not the case.
Tesla does not provide any information about the general conditions, like the Model S and X either.
There we determined in our three-year research that there is a corridor for the reduction (between 2,625 - 13,125 kWh) in which the ratio of AC-DC charges decides whether the reduction will occur. Over 13,125kWh are all reduced.
In Model 3, the limit seems to be higher and there are other influencing factors.
For you to estimate how much a reduction could affect you.
For me it is currently the case that I have to charge between 5 - 15 minutes longer for the same amount of energy. On the long distance travel it is usually 10 minutes per charging stop, 15 only if I have to charge to 90%.
This affects me considerably, because I drive more often between 500 - 1,300km a day and therefore have to charge up to 9 times and therefore need 1.5 hours longer than before.
Others hardly notice it, because if you only load 1 - 2 times, it doesn't really matter.
I personally would not make the purchase decision for a Model 3 dependent on the possible reduction in charging power.
Nobody knows what will come in the next few years.
If you had to choose between the Model S and 3, I would take the Model 3 because I know of some cases with the Model S Raven in which the charging power was reduced after 20,000km of supercharger use and the Model 3 should therefore last much longer.
regards
Dirk
Since 2018, the user manual has clearly stated that the charging power is reduced if the DC is charged frequently.
For Model 3 you will find this passage on page 154 of the current operating instructions: 2020-04-07_0720
Regarding the reduction of the charging performance, I have only received unconfirmed reports from a fleet with around 400 Tesla Model 3 performance, which are currently all around 100,000 km mileage, almost always 100% charged on the Supercharger to 100% SOC.
Over 95% of these vehicles are said to have a charging capacity reduced to 100kW peak since they have traveled approximately 95,000km.
There are also other Model 3 owners who report about it.
However, despite extensive research, I still haven't received any confirmation.
Since the topic is discussed very emotionally and you are immediately hostile when you try to fathom it, I am not further here.
So what I can say in summary:
Officially, the user manual state that there is a reduction in the charging power if you charge the Supercharger too often. There are supposed to be vehicles where this is the case, but there are also vehicles with a similar mileage where this is not the case.
Tesla does not provide any information about the general conditions, like the Model S and X either.
There we determined in our three-year research that there is a corridor for the reduction (between 2,625 - 13,125 kWh) in which the ratio of AC-DC charges decides whether the reduction will occur. Over 13,125kWh are all reduced.
In Model 3, the limit seems to be higher and there are other influencing factors.
For you to estimate how much a reduction could affect you.
For me it is currently the case that I have to charge between 5 - 15 minutes longer for the same amount of energy. On the long distance travel it is usually 10 minutes per charging stop, 15 only if I have to charge to 90%.
This affects me considerably, because I drive more often between 500 - 1,300km a day and therefore have to charge up to 9 times and therefore need 1.5 hours longer than before.
Others hardly notice it, because if you only load 1 - 2 times, it doesn't really matter.
I personally would not make the purchase decision for a Model 3 dependent on the possible reduction in charging power.
Nobody knows what will come in the next few years.
If you had to choose between the Model S and 3, I would take the Model 3 because I know of some cases with the Model S Raven in which the charging power was reduced after 20,000km of supercharger use and the Model 3 should therefore last much longer.
regards
Dirk
Yes. Since you do not drive (much) during the week, then you will have time to charge what you lost over the weekend.
Answer to your question, as asked, is a definitive NO. They are not throttled after "x number of supercharges".
They are anecdotal reports of users who have fast-charged "a lot", though less than other people have supercharged, who are suddenly throttled. The negative issues are represented here more often, as a percentage.
Tesla has a GIGANTIC 8 year 160,000 km warranty, but throttled SC is not a part of that. Considering that an ICE car has a warranty of only 100,000 km, then you are not in such a bad situation. You can sell the car to someone who does not need supercharging in the RARE and UNLIKELY event that you are throttled.
And you will have your situation figured out by then anyways.
And I think people are also forgetting something about the charging speed differences between the S/X versus the 3. The older S/X that have had their charging speed reduced used to only be able to handle a maximum of about 115-120kW in the very best case, and they have been slowed down to in the realm of about 80-90. So they're still in that realm of about two thirds to three fourths or so. But yes, that kind of charging speed for vehicles with lower efficiency does get kind of frustrating for travel.
The Model 3 was built with thicker power cables inside and apparently a battery pack formulation that can handle higher charging speeds, so they can make use of that version 3 Supercharger stuff that gets to nearly 250kW. I don't think any slowing has been observed yet on the 3s, but even if it were to ever happen, and they cut the speed down some in a similar proportion, that would still be max charging speeds around 180kW. For vehicles with better efficiency like the 3/Y, that is still an absolutely great usable speed for people's traveling use.
So even if any throttling were to occur on the 3, it would be no big deal.
The Model 3 was built with thicker power cables inside and apparently a battery pack formulation that can handle higher charging speeds, so they can make use of that version 3 Supercharger stuff that gets to nearly 250kW. I don't think any slowing has been observed yet on the 3s, but even if it were to ever happen, and they cut the speed down some in a similar proportion, that would still be max charging speeds around 180kW. For vehicles with better efficiency like the 3/Y, that is still an absolutely great usable speed for people's traveling use.
So even if any throttling were to occur on the 3, it would be no big deal.
I agree.
In California, the biggest EV state, more people are renters than owners. They have difficulty charging at their apartments.
Until energy densities increase, charging speed decreases, battery tech because extremely affordable, and max range increase I don’t see EV becoming universally adopted. I’m talking about 600 mile range EV that you can charge every two weeks. And level 3 charging has to be universally widespread (I’m talking rows upon rows located at Walmart, target, Trader Joe’s, grocery food outlets (middle to lower class establishments, where you can get a max charge in 40 mins). Not level 2 that takes 4-7 hrs. That’s when EV will be 95% on the road
I really wish this is now. Look at the air quality with covid 19. No cars on the road. Light traffic so majority are ice cars but the air is clean. Can you imagine if the freeways were full of EV and ice cars are 1-10%. You can see the mountains in LA from a hundred miles.
Candleflame
Active Member
There is just no real way around it with any EV. The plates will end up thickening over time and it becomes too dangerous to send too many amps into the battery.
I have a suspicion that Tesla has done extensive testing re: this and this was the reason why 80kw was chosen as the initial chargespeed for the Model S. On pressing of Elon & co they uped that later to 90 and then to 120kw and were then dealing with the consequences of battery heatup.
I just wish they give the owners the option at a nonbusy supercharger to limit the chargerate to i.e. 80kw and exclude slow DC chargers i.e. 50kw CSS from the limit as this is clearly not an issue.
I have a suspicion that Tesla has done extensive testing re: this and this was the reason why 80kw was chosen as the initial chargespeed for the Model S. On pressing of Elon & co they uped that later to 90 and then to 120kw and were then dealing with the consequences of battery heatup.
I just wish they give the owners the option at a nonbusy supercharger to limit the chargerate to i.e. 80kw and exclude slow DC chargers i.e. 50kw CSS from the limit as this is clearly not an issue.
CertLive
Member
I agree here. For the majority of users I have my doubts if they will have to worry at all about throttling. The 3 and Y do have the newest chemistry cells which according to some heavy users are holding up just fine over 100K. I have personally consumed a lot of content from all area's of the EV automotive industry and formed an opinion of there is no better battery and BMS design for longevity. V3 yes that is impressive it saves a lot of time when you are boosting up to finish the leg. 150kw is super fast I think we are spoilt as most other EV,s are still only on 50-100kw. So V3 250 zoom!. So verdict to the question: Enjoy it and do not worry about throttling.
UncleCreepy
Member
While I agree that throttling won't be an issue, I believe that not being able to charge at 240V/32A ist a huge inconvenience.
Let's talk about winter. The car will draw considerably more power while heating up, so 300 miles on a single charge is not going to happen, especially not here in the great white north. Sure, you can supercharge, but with a likely cold battery you're not going to see 150 kW peak power. Chances are you'll be limited to half that number. Not because of battery degradation, but because it's cold.
You can counter this effect by preconditioning the battery, but this can easily take 30 minutes at which the efficiency plummets even further. The extra heat to warm up the battery doesn't come for free.
Also, keep in mind that when you charge at 120V/12A you're drawing 1440W from the grid. Because the car won't sleep while it's charging, roughly 300 W go down the drain. This loss is always present while charging and it's not a big deal while charging at high power, but at 120 V the charge efficiency goes way south.
Whether or not that's acceptable is up to you. Also I don't expect any real problems during the summer. If you believe that the board will find a solution before next winter then by all means, go for it. If not, I can tell you right now that the wait times while supercharging will be excrutiating unless you really really love Timmies (if there is one nearby).
Let's talk about winter. The car will draw considerably more power while heating up, so 300 miles on a single charge is not going to happen, especially not here in the great white north. Sure, you can supercharge, but with a likely cold battery you're not going to see 150 kW peak power. Chances are you'll be limited to half that number. Not because of battery degradation, but because it's cold.
You can counter this effect by preconditioning the battery, but this can easily take 30 minutes at which the efficiency plummets even further. The extra heat to warm up the battery doesn't come for free.
Also, keep in mind that when you charge at 120V/12A you're drawing 1440W from the grid. Because the car won't sleep while it's charging, roughly 300 W go down the drain. This loss is always present while charging and it's not a big deal while charging at high power, but at 120 V the charge efficiency goes way south.
Whether or not that's acceptable is up to you. Also I don't expect any real problems during the summer. If you believe that the board will find a solution before next winter then by all means, go for it. If not, I can tell you right now that the wait times while supercharging will be excrutiating unless you really really love Timmies (if there is one nearby).
Do Trader Joe's have big parking lots in CA? Here in ATL they are typically just one of many stores in a strip mall. The one freestanding store near me has a lot for about 25 cars.
lUtriaNt
Member
trader joes lots are stingy here in LA so its not just in GA.. 
as another data point, there are lots of folks who live in apartments with no home charging and rely on SC's or orther means. im such a person. i also have a built in garage with no outlets. theres reasons why there are no outlets in apartment garages.
none of this stopped me from getting an ev. im charging as i type this and its no issue or inconvenience. theres also quite a few evs here in the tesla stalls...
as another data point, there are lots of folks who live in apartments with no home charging and rely on SC's or orther means. im such a person. i also have a built in garage with no outlets. theres reasons why there are no outlets in apartment garages.
none of this stopped me from getting an ev. im charging as i type this and its no issue or inconvenience. theres also quite a few evs here in the tesla stalls...
I wouldn't worry about throttling. Even more important, you will be surprised by how much charging you can do with 110 volts. Cars tend to sit a lot. It is a tortoise and hare thing. Slow but steady...
Just use a good extension cord and no longer than you need. Pay attention to the gauge, etc. (12 AWG is good.
Just use a good extension cord and no longer than you need. Pay attention to the gauge, etc. (12 AWG is good.
vsansal
Member
Here is another owner that hit 130K in 2 years. Might be the highest milage model 3 out there
Maiden Voyage: A Voyage Without Carbon on Twitter
He has a LRRWD and according to him 98% of all his charging is done using SC network since his is always on the road. His 100 rated range sits at 303. No mention of SC throttling. He seems very responsive on Twitter, you can tweet and ask him if you like.
Maiden Voyage: A Voyage Without Carbon on Twitter
He has a LRRWD and according to him 98% of all his charging is done using SC network since his is always on the road. His 100 rated range sits at 303. No mention of SC throttling. He seems very responsive on Twitter, you can tweet and ask him if you like.
XLR82XS
D M C
I do drive my 3 ~20K per year. I wonder what the SC rate for the 460K mile taxi Model S is? It supercharges everyday.
