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The difference is I don't give a **** about it being free. I want it to be available rather than full.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
I'm in the same boat. When I get my 3, the garage will be prepped for it. I live within a battery pack of at least 14 SC locations (not stalls), and chances are, the only time that will come in to play will be our semi-annual trip down the East Coast to VA (although, I'd love to see them eventually fill in the gap in the middle of VA between Lynchburg and Richmond, but that's a convo for another thread).
When I'm trying to make good time down the Jersey Turnpike, etc etc, I'd rather not have to wait in line behind some guy who is on his way home from work and is only 5 miles from his house.
Maybe Tesla can have some sort of pre-pay or "credits" system. A nominal amount of $ can be put into an account, and the closer you are to home, the higher premium you pay for use. However, and we all know Tesla can track this stuff.....say you're on a long trip, and within the last 10 hours, you've stopped at 4 SC's, and to make it home, you have to stop for a quick burst at the SC nearest you. Tesla can sense that and not ding you for a premium, since it's part of your trip....
JoRey
Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
Tesla's Model in opinion is exponential and is commonly known is a ratio. For every x car there will be y superchargers available. As more and more tesla's are sold/made there will be more and more superchargers to service said cars. At some point there will be more superchargers available then is needed. For the simple premise that not everyone that owns a Tesla will go on a road-trip on a given day/holiday. When that will happen, i have no clue. But as more and more cars hit the roads. Tesla will be forced to make more and more superchargers.
Elon was asked about that at meeting here in Oslo 1. February 2014 and answered that if this plug would be popular/been implemented at a lot (I don't remember the exact wording) of chargers, they will make an adapter (but yes, not a simple plastic adapter - more like the ChaDemo adapter). As CCS now being mandatory here in Europe, I do expect them to make that adapter. Or, as earlier posted, build it into future car models.
Here is the video from that meeting: Elon Musk in Oslo 01.02.2014 - YouTube
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Cool. Put your money where your mouth is, then. Invest in those companies that require memberships and fees and cards and billing and stuff so that you can have nice, neat, exclusive places to recharge your electric vehicle. That strategy has worked great to make sure there are never any lines at gas stations, right?
It's not about it being 'free'. It's not about 'paying less' than you do for gas. It's about the experience being BETTER than paying for gas -- period.
Tesla Motors does not exist to provide an exclusive experience with electric vehicles. A lot of other companies pride themselves on the notion of exclusivity, heritage, tradition. I do not believe that Tesla Motors seeks to fulfill those fantasies. Their goal is pretty much the opposite. Just as is the case with those who long for a 'more luxurious' interior environment from Tesla will be forever disappointed... So will those who want to be not only the first on the block, but the one-and-only on the block, find themselves surrounded by Tesla vehicles on their daily commute to work. Strange that no one seems to notice that an 'exclusive' marque like Mercedes-Benz has sold well over 300,000 units in the US for each of the past three years, and since 2002 has only dropped below 200,000 units once. There is no shortage of 'exclusivity' it seems.
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Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
An excellent point that I have made multiple times, yet very few seem to believe for some reason. In Los Angeles County there are 1,900 gas stations that service over 6,000,000 vehicles that are registered here. I doubt that thus far even 1% of that, or 60,000 units are Supercharger capable Tesla Motors products right now. But this works out to around 3,000 ICE vehicles for every gas station though...
SHELL has about 25,000 gas stations in the United States. Now, they aren't the sole provider of gasoline and diesel products in the nation... But they still figure that is enough to handle the 250,000,000 ICE vehicles that are on the roads here, should they choose to stop by. That's 10,000 cars and trucks per location.
According to the 2012 US Census, there were 114,533 gas stations in the nation. So, just shy of 2,200 ICE cars per location.
A lot of people talk about the mythical 'five minute fill-up' they do routinely with an ICE vehicle. If you presume that a Supercharger stop would typically be six times as long, or 30 minutes... That means you would need Superchargers to be six times as dense per Tesla vehicle as gas stations are for ICE cars. Of course, you also have to suspend reality and presume that 99.9% of new Tesla Owners will forego the option of charging at home, as 'everyone knows' the sky will fall once the Model ≡ arrives and there will be lines around the block at every Supercharger for hours on end.
Anyhow, with those caveats, you may expect:
- one Supercharger location for every 367 vehicles in the US,
- or one Supercharger location for every 500 equipped vehicles in Los Angeles County,
- or one Supercharger location for every 1,667 for SHELL Customers in the US
Well, it turns out that for the approximately 66,003 Model S owners and maybe 608 Model X owners in the US there are currently 255 active Supercharger locations. Which works out to about 261 equipped Tesla Motors vehicles per Supercharger. Or, well ahead of the needed ratio to 'match' gas stations. I firmly believe that this proves that Tesla Motors holds a commitment to density of Superchargers. I do not believe that commitment will fade with the coming of Model ≡. If anything, it will redouble.
JoRey
Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
I concur 100%. Regardless Tesla needs to increase the amount of superchargers avaible by the time Model III arrives. Else their will huge deficit of superchargers, tesla needs to get this ratio right. Also they need to install more superchargers in and around Socal. The Buenapark Tesla service station is a prime location and candidate. It is right at the intersections of the 91 and 5 freeway.......
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Yeah. I guess the short form of my post is that: It is strange that 3,000 vehicles per gas station is considered just fine in one of the most vehicle intensive places in the United States of America, but EVs are considered non-viable and inconvenient, when ICE vehicles don't even magically fill themselves overnight in the garage while you sleep.
What is so funny in the extreme is that all the concerns about overcrowding due to Model 3 are completely ignoring that by the time Model 3 is released there will be twice as many Model S (&X) on the road than currently.
It will be three to four years before Model 3 approaches the Model S total.
Go and check the speed of supercharger deployments and extrapolate that for three or four years.
Then the teacup will be noticed at the edges of the "overcrowding" storm
I think supercharging hardware should be there, but can be locked and unlocked by software like Auto Pilot. Thus:
Supercharging Feature: $ 2,000
Enable Supercharging: $ 2,500
May be we can deduct $500 from above figures because Model 3 use smaller battery.
Supercharging Feature: $ 2,000
Enable Supercharging: $ 2,500
May be we can deduct $500 from above figures because Model 3 use smaller battery.
Smaller battery than what? The current 90kWh Model S battery? Possibly. Smaller than the original Model S 60 kWh battery? Fat chance. Battery costs are decreasing and are very affordable with current tech.
I strongly hope that the price difference to the customer has very little markup between the pack sizes. 25kWh upgrade from the (est.) base 60 kWh for only $3750 would be fantastic.
I strongly hope that the price difference to the customer has very little markup between the pack sizes. 25kWh upgrade from the (est.) base 60 kWh for only $3750 would be fantastic.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
There is a reason for Tesla to sell juice. Have you tried to get from them a charging adapter that would allow the battery to power your home in an emergency? Why not? Because you'd then be tempted to go fill up for free at the nearest supercharger. I rest my case.
flankspeed8
Member
Doubtful, you can't on the Model S. (And the Model X all come with Supercharging.)
But my guess is that there is like a 80% chance that Supercharge will be included in the $35k base.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The 'why not' seems to be that JB Straubel thinks it is a dumb idea to do Vehicle to Home (V2H) or Vehicle to Grid (V2G), no matter where the electricity came from... He is much more diplomatic about it than I would be... But when he's asked, responding with, "We have no interest in that technology at this time.", but his body language and facial expression says something different. Myself, having grown up in a place where power outages were commonplace during storms, I'd much rather keep the energy stored in my car, so I could drive out-of-State as quickly as possible in an emergency. The alternative is like siphoning gas from your car tank to run a generator.
Brad_SC
Member
How often do you drive far enough that you will REQUIRE charging while away from home?
I believe that potential future Model 3 owners are overly concerned with Supercharger availability, and for the record, I cannot imagine a world where Tesla would keep the Model 3 from using the Supercharger network, it would be incredibly counterintuitive.
So, what are the basics at play here?
Most people will charge their Model 3 at home, at night, while they sleep. They can wake-up to a fully charged car each day if they need to. Assuming the base Model 3 has a driving range of 200 miles minimum... Each person purchasing the base Model 3 will be able to drive 200 miles round-trip before having to plug-in again.
Real-world application...
For someone who drives 50 miles to work [wow that is a lot, you should consider moving, haha], and 60 miles home (maybe you ran a few errands on the way home), 90 miles will remain available, and recharging will be required before duplicating the trip. But none of these people will choose to spend 15-60 minutes plugged-in to a Supercharger waiting for the car to charge, while they delay their day by this much just so that they don't have to plug-in at night. On the other hand, some of these people will choose to visit a Supercharger to keep from paying the charging bill themselves (shame on you if you're one of these people [Just my personal opinion. Love me or hate me, haha.]).
Superchargers are for situations where your vehicle travels beyond the limits of a single charge, without the ability to return home, or charge at your hotel, etc. We shouldn't expect to need Superchargers daily. Probably not even weekly. In fact, if we're completely honest, MOST future Model 3 (as well as current Model S/X and Roadster owners) will probably only need to use the Superchargers a few times a year as they go on vacations, transition between seasonal homes, or travel to specialists (such as specialized Doctors or certain businesses they must visit that are quite a distance from home).
That being said, I do realize that some people will (very rapidly) put substantially more miles on this car than I would want to put on mine in that same timeframe. If you are a person who travels for work, using multiple Superchargers may be a DAILY NECESSITY.
I believe that potential future Model 3 owners are overly concerned with Supercharger availability, and for the record, I cannot imagine a world where Tesla would keep the Model 3 from using the Supercharger network, it would be incredibly counterintuitive.
So, what are the basics at play here?
Most people will charge their Model 3 at home, at night, while they sleep. They can wake-up to a fully charged car each day if they need to. Assuming the base Model 3 has a driving range of 200 miles minimum... Each person purchasing the base Model 3 will be able to drive 200 miles round-trip before having to plug-in again.
Real-world application...
For someone who drives 50 miles to work [wow that is a lot, you should consider moving, haha], and 60 miles home (maybe you ran a few errands on the way home), 90 miles will remain available, and recharging will be required before duplicating the trip. But none of these people will choose to spend 15-60 minutes plugged-in to a Supercharger waiting for the car to charge, while they delay their day by this much just so that they don't have to plug-in at night. On the other hand, some of these people will choose to visit a Supercharger to keep from paying the charging bill themselves (shame on you if you're one of these people [Just my personal opinion. Love me or hate me, haha.]).
Superchargers are for situations where your vehicle travels beyond the limits of a single charge, without the ability to return home, or charge at your hotel, etc. We shouldn't expect to need Superchargers daily. Probably not even weekly. In fact, if we're completely honest, MOST future Model 3 (as well as current Model S/X and Roadster owners) will probably only need to use the Superchargers a few times a year as they go on vacations, transition between seasonal homes, or travel to specialists (such as specialized Doctors or certain businesses they must visit that are quite a distance from home).
That being said, I do realize that some people will (very rapidly) put substantially more miles on this car than I would want to put on mine in that same timeframe. If you are a person who travels for work, using multiple Superchargers may be a DAILY NECESSITY.
Brad_SC
Member
I could say so much, truly... but let me reiterate my previous statement... "shame on you if you're one of these people."
If you cannot afford the gas to go in your gas-guzzler, you cannot afford your gas-guzzler. If you cannot afford the Electricity to go into your EV, you cannot afford your EV. If you aren't honest to pay for the Electricity your Tesla requires, you don't deserve to have one. Naturally, I do support people using the Supercharger network to extend their driving range from their home.
Abuse of the system will get privileges taken away. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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