Model 3 Supercharger usage

[dreamwave6]

For those of you that are considering the fairness of this in light of those of us with Model S and Model X vehicles getting free Supercharging (either by purchasing their vehicle on/before 5/20/17 or by using a referral code following that date), I say this. Model S and Model X are premium luxury vehicles with premium features and, in addition, these vehicles are high margin generators for Tesla. The Model 3, on the other hand, is a more budget-oriented vehicle with more basic features and, at the same time, represents lower margins for Tesla. As such, they simply cannot afford to give Model 3 owners free Supercharging, even though you guys probably need it more than most Model S / Model X owners.

The free Supercharging (with referral) is one of the main reasons why I canceled my Model 3 reservation back in June and bought a Model X instead. I never pay to charge my car (including at home). Using Superchargers on a regular basis is working great for me!

Andrew

 

[chronopc]

For those of you that are considering the fairness of this in light of those of us with Model S and Model X vehicles getting free Supercharging (either by purchasing their vehicle on/before 5/20/17 or by using a referral code following that date), I say this. Model S and Model X are premium luxury vehicles with premium features and, in addition, these vehicles are high margin generators for Tesla. The Model 3, on the other hand, is a more budget-oriented vehicle with more basic features and, at the same time, represents lower margins for Tesla. As such, they simply cannot afford to give Model 3 owners free Supercharging, even though you guys probably need it more than most Model S / Model X owners.

The free Supercharging (with referral) is one of the main reasons why I canceled my Model 3 reservation back in June and bought a Model X instead. I never pay to charge my car (including at home). Using Superchargers on a regular basis is working great for me!

Andrew

Is there increased battery degradation from using the superchargers that often?

 

[Troy]

Model S and Model X ... vehicles are high margin generators for Tesla.

That's the story Tesla wants people to believe in but it's not correct. Model S and X gross margin was 24.5% in 2015 and 25.2% in 2016. See the last two columns on the last page in THIS shareholder letter. In comparison, the Model 3 is expected to achieve 25% gross margin in 2018. See the second bullet point on top of page 1 in THIS shareholder letter.

So, the question is, if the Model 3 and Model S/X have the same gross margin, how come the Model S/X are so expensive compared to the Model 3? The answer is because the Model S/X production lines are not automated enough and require too much manual labor. Therefore production costs are high and prices are high too. According to this article, the S/X production is 7 times less efficient than it was when the Nummi factory (Tesla's Fremont factory) was operated by Toyota and GM. Elon confirmed that the Model 3 production line is a lot more automated than S/X. Listen here.

 

[TimM.]

I'd much rather have 400kwh / year.. I'll never reach that much in a year, and if I keep the Model 3 for 15 years (very likely) that'll be the better deal. That said, I think any reasonable amount like this is fair.

 

[TQCLove]

I want to choose "FAIR?" because I think it's fair, but I'm not quite sure.

Kidding aside, I was looking forward to the 400 free per year, but I'll just mostly charge at home, my energy bill will go up a little bit, and I'll be as happy as can be because I'll have my Model 3!

 

[Beckler]

I'm hoping there's a unlimited option. In fact I'd rather they just go back to what they had at first - always free forever. What sells more cars, slightly lower price, or being able to advertise free "gas" for life? Who knows but I lean towards the latter. I don't care if I'm paying for others' usage; already doing that in number of other ways anyway including buying a Tesla.

 

[Lloyd]

I think the unlimited model for all Tesla cars will fade away.

 

[PRSIST]

Today I visited the Tesla Fremont Headquarters Design Center, and was told by an employee about the supercharger arrangement for Model 3 owners. Model 3 owners will be granted 1000 kWh free supercharger use with their purchase, to use at any time. Once that initial allotment is exhausted, Model 3 owners will pay for supercharging by kWh usage at the nominal local rates.

The leading assumption up to this point (400 kWh free every year)... is apparently not applicable to Model 3 owners.

I would love some consistency. We were told that we would get 400 kWh free every year. Tesla releases the details of its new Supercharger Credit program

I would like to have had that 400 kWh free usage roll over to the next year if not used up to a maximum amount in case I were to take a long road trip. One response was right on....make is so people can only use their FREE 400 kWh if they are 100-200 miles away from their home.

Bottom line...it's Tesla's ball and if they want to, they can take their ball and go home. (They can make their own rules and we have to live with it.) But some damn consistency would be nice.

 

[gambit48]

Is there increased battery degradation from using the superchargers that often?

That's what I want to know too. PG&E charges me a base rate of $.20/Kw. I believe that's the max rate Tesla has said they'll charge for the Supercharger. Well, in the summer, I already hit Tier 2 and sometimes Tier 3 which is way more expensive than $.20/Kw. Yet, my house is oddly efficient outside of 3 months in the summer so solar hasn't been worth it yet. I'm really considering just charging at a Supercharger station since I live right next to two of them. I just worry it's going to affect the long term health of my battery as I intend to keep the car for a very long time (it's replacing a nearly 10 year old car and I hope to last just as long with this one).

 

[Trips]

If having ZERO credits would mean I would not have to wait to charge I would take it. Add in the fact that I think we will see loyalty credits (I'm looking at you Hy-Vee) from companies it will not matter to me. Even if I paid $20-$30/year for no wait I would take it.

 

[tony b]

1000 kw is great news, i hope that's true! I think there will be lots more people utilizing urban super charging because of living in apartments or rentals without home charging. hopefully more local businesses and communities will continue to offer destination charging as well. I always recommend it to local establishments that i frequent.

 

[kwest2]

How many auto makers provide free gas? I don't think Tesla giving away >$200 of electricity (here in MA) is anything but a positive.

 

[tony b]

Today I visited the Tesla Fremont Headquarters Design Center, and was told by an employee about the supercharger arrangement for Model 3 owners. Model 3 owners will be granted 1000 kWh free supercharger use with their purchase, to use at any time. Once that initial allotment is exhausted, Model 3 owners will pay for supercharging by kWh usage at the nominal local rates.

The leading assumption up to this point (400 kWh free every year)... is apparently not applicable to Model 3 owners.

i liked the idea of getting 400 kwh every year, instead of getting one lump sum. it would've been a satisfying benefit of long term ownership, but i won't complain about free energy.

 

[FalseProfit]

Just to quickly chime in about the idea of the credit only applying to superchargers X away from one's home:

100-200 miles away might be fine for those in areas with relatively dense supercharger coverage, but here in Michigan, even 100 miles away is a stretch. If I go on a 300 mile each way road trip with no destination charging, assuming 3 SC visits are needed, as many as 2 would likely have to be approx within 100 miles of my home let alone 200. I'd rarely be able use this credit with these proposed restrictions.

And I agree with others than 400 kwh a year would be significantly more beneficial. Though I'd be surprised if we got that despite evidence supporting it.

 

[03DSG]

I'll wait for confirmation of this. There has been unintentional misinformation from employees before.

 

[3Victoria]

Yes wait for official news. I like the ring around home idea ... so SC is for distance.

 

[JeffK]

How many auto makers provide free gas?

A number have had promotions with free gas in a monetary value far greater than 1000 kWh worth of electricity ($100 value where I am). Many times, dealers will also run such promotions.

Back in 2005 Mitsubishi ran a promotion giving gift cards for gas worth between $1,500 to $2,500

 

[jsmay311]

I'm hoping there's a unlimited option. In fact I'd rather they just go back to what they had at first - always free forever. What sells more cars, slightly lower price, or being able to advertise free "gas" for life? Who knows but I lean towards the latter. I don't care if I'm paying for others' usage; already doing that in number of other ways anyway including buying a Tesla.

The cost of the energy is not the most important factor in my estimation.

Rather I think it's more about the practical matter of SC availability and the counterproductive incentives that would be created if you granted free-for-life usage to millions of Model 3 owners.

As long as it's "free", some people will charge at SC's just to save a few bucks, and that will be bad for everyone else, especially as the number of Teslas on the road increases exponentially.

 

[JeffK]

The cost of the energy is not the most important factor in my estimation.

Rather I think it's more about the practical matter of SC availability and the counterproductive incentives that would be created if you granted free-for-life usage to millions of Model 3 owners.

As long as it's "free", some people will charge at SC's just to save a few bucks, and that will be bad for everyone else, especially as the number of Teslas on the road increases exponentially.

A supercharger is 35 minutes from my house. I don't think I'd make that hour long trip to save a max of $8

 

[Beckler]

As long as it's "free", some people will charge at SC's just to save a few bucks, and that will be bad for everyone else, especially as the number of Teslas on the road increases exponentially.

True, and I'm definitely for restricting locals using superchargers. But still available in some limited fashion - how about this, if your subsequent charges move out along a trip path then the local one is free. You might call it the Friday night supercharge case: you are leaving for a trip on Fri. after work but your battery is at 20% from Friday use.