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Model 3 Supercharger usage

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Enginerd, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Model 3 supercharger policy:

  1. Fair?

  2. Unfair?

  3. More kWh than I'll probably use

  4. Probably meets my needs

  5. Scotty, I need more power!

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Totally disagree, locals need to have full access to superchargers especially those who live in apartments or lack other means of easily charging. Tesla agrees and is working on more urban superchargers.
     
    • Like x 2
  2. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

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    Is there data somewhere that will provide some insights on how many people with free unlimited charging only charge at SC to save money?
     
  3. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

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    This is why I don't think that many people with a home charging option take advantage of the unlimited SC. Time is money.
     
    • Funny x 1
  4. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    So long as everyone understands that superchargers are a band-aid... not a solution. If you own an EV you NEED to be standing up and pushing for L2 where you live, work and shop.

    This idea has already been crushed by reality :( Apparently even people that can afford $50k+ cars still behave irrationally enough to cause problems....

    By removing the “free” electricity option, Tesla is also hoping to stop some of its customers’ economically irrational behavior. “If [people] do math on the value of their time,” said Tesla CTO JB Straubel at the company’s annual shareholder meeting this March, using a a Supercharger station “makes no sense.”
     
    • Like x 4
    • Informative x 1
    • Love x 1
  5. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

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    I can afford to pay for electricity but I still want the 1000kwh credit for my road trips. :)
     
  6. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Me too, I think 1000 kWh would last me ten years.
     
  7. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

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    I plan on doing a road trip a month so I'll use it yearly.
     
  8. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    I agree but only until they put solar and batteries at all superchargers...then free would be sustainable.
     
    • Disagree x 2
  9. dreamwave6

    dreamwave6 Member

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    No, there is not. If you don't believe me, ask Tesloop who Supercharges each of their Model X vehicles multiple times per day.

    Andrew
     
  10. dreamwave6

    dreamwave6 Member

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    That is ridiculous Troy. You are talking about Gross Margin Percentages of cars that are not in the same price range. 25% of $80k is not the same as 25% of $35k!

    Andrew
     
    • Disagree x 1
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2020: Drain the Sewer

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    1000 kWh is worth ~ $100 - $200 depending on the state

    Nice perk, but to be honest I don't care. This is a $40k car, ladies and gents.
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2020: Drain the Sewer

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    Your behavior may lead to Supercharger congestion if it is copied and common
     
  13. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    While true the sales volume for the Model 3 will be four+ times as high. Really much greater as Tesla's 100k number is split between X and S. But, even four times 25% of $35k ($35k haha) is greater than 30% of $80k. Model 3 will be the real money maker after the ramp up is complete.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. dreamwave6

    dreamwave6 Member

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    Jeff...that is faulty logic as well. 4X the sales volume of Model 3 vehicles would mean 4X the potential number of customers using Superchargers for free (if Model 3 owners were offered the same benefit that Model S and Model X owners). This would then require Tesla to spend more of their own money building many more Superchargers to accommodate the many additional people looking for free Supercharging.

    You have to look at the Gross Margin Profit in dollars (not percentage) PER VEHICLE to be fair and equitable here.

    People need to come to grips with reality and accept that Tesla has, at present, multiple different levels of vehicles just as many other auto manufacturers do. BMW does not give offer the same level of features/capabilities in their 3-series cars as they do in their 7-series cars. Get over it people. Just be glad that a Model 3 is SOOOOO much better than all of the alternatives.... Leafs, Volts, Bolts, Hybrid POS cars, etc. A Model 3, starting at $35,000, is a great car and a great value, even without free Supercharging.

    If free Supercharging is that important to you, PM me and I'll give you a referral code for $1,000 off & Free Supercharging for the purchase of any new Model S and Model X vehicle. I'll throw in an Overnight with Tesla invite (Extended Test Drive) for you too. When you do the economics (Free Supercharging, Full Federal Rebate, difference in standard features, referral program benefits, etc.), the price gap between Model S/X and Model 3 starts to close up. When I ran the numbers in my case, I cancelled my Model 3 order and bought a Model X. Haven't looked back ever since.

    Andrew
     
    • Like x 2
  15. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    Yes, but this is losing it's original context. The point was how much free supercharging to provide per car, so the only thing that counts is how much profit per car Tesla makes.

    edit: just beaten to it.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    Urban superchargers = destination chargers in my book. The vast majority of SC built out today are to support distance traveling in an attempt to equalize the ICE superior range and quick re-fill. People should charge at home/destination. I think that for all Tesla vehicles not covered by the unlimited clause, they should NOT receive free charging close to home to discourage improperly using SC. In my opinion, I like the idea that if I take 1 trip a year, that once I get away from my home circle, I could charge for free. This wouldn't cost Tesla much, it would help keep SC from being over crowded, and if everyone's yearly "free" amount was capped (say 200kWh, or 400kWh, or even 1,000kWh), it would offer a cost model that is compatible with excessive users.

    I will admit that long-term, Tesla has to pay for the infrastructure somehow. Has the extreme CAPEX that Tesla is currently going through and has already gone through over the years has this mostly already paid for? Most SC are not solar yet (although Elon mentioned wanting to update most to be), so there is energy cost involved. I'd love to know how much Tesla spends yearly on energy and maintenance of the SC network (not CAPEX). That would help us design a cost model that Tesla wouldn't bother using anyway ;)
     
    • Like x 2
  17. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about people that cannot charge at home and typical destination chargers would take too long. If you think congestion is bad now it'd be worse in these regions.
     
  18. Troy

    Troy Active Member

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    #58 Troy, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    TLDR: Model 3 80 has better gross margin and higher gross profit than Model S 75

    Yes, I wrote about gross margins and not about gross profit. Tesla cares about gross margins. Their focus has always been on margins. So much so that, reaching 30% gross margin is one of the milestones Elon has promised to the Tesla board. See the list here.

    When you said 25% of $35K is lower than 25% of $80K that was not a fair comparison because the $80K version of the Model S doesn't have 25% gross margin. The overall gross margin on the Model S is a little over 25%. The Model S P100D sells for $140,000. The Model S 100D for $100,800. Yet, all Model S combined are a little over 25% gross margin. Why? Because the Model S 75 and 75D have much lower margins. In fact, 11.4% and 13.8% respectively based on my calculation. The numbers look like this:

    [​IMG]

    There is some data here for the sales numbers of different Model S trim levels.

    Now, think about the Model 3. The Model 3 80, 80D and P80D are the more expensive versions. Those are competing against the 75 kWh Model S. If the overall Model 3 margin is 25%, then the Model 3 80, 80D and P80D must be higher than Model 3 55 and 55D. In fact, based on my calculation, the Model 3 80 does not just have a higher gross margin than the Model S 75, but it also has a higher gross profit.

    I'm calculating $10,550 gross profit and 24% gross margin for the Model 3 80, compared to $8,335 gross profit and 11.4% gross margin for the Model S 75. The table below is created in such a way that the overall Model 3 gross margin is 25% which is what Tesla said and the overall Model S gross margin is 27.9% which is what the latest numbers show for 2017. To summarize, Tesla will make more money per Model 3 80 than Model S 75. Therefore, the S75 and S75D will be discontinued. In fact, Tesla has already confirmed they will discontinue the S75 (source).

    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative x 3
    • Like x 1
  19. Rkoroma

    Rkoroma Member

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    WE SHOULD HAVE FREE SUPERCHARGING WITH 2 REFERALS FOR MODEL 3!
     
    • Funny x 1
  20. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    Still, SC are NOT setup to replace home/destination charging. Even with the # of stalls increasing, they are clearly designed for travel/trips use. Who needs to charge at 300+ mi/hour at home? Who wants to wait at an SC as a destination charger when there are 30 people wanting to park for the night? People without the ability to install chargers at their home or have access to destination chargers are a definite gap in the EV ecosystem solution. We should identify the % of Tesla owners that fall under this category and solve the problem accordingly. I'm sure it was very low when it was roadster, MS, MX. With M3, it will still be a low percentage, but it's getting bigger. I just don't see SC as this answer.
     

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