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Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion
- Thread starter rnelsonee
- Start date
After thinking about it, I think a fair solution might be to sell access passes. Making it a $2000 option is very tough for most who only take a few trips per year. And denying those types an affordable way to travel long distances easily when they do goes against the whole idea of the network in the 1st place. However, you also need a system that discourages locals from taking advantage of free fill ups. Also, I expect Tesla would want a system that is easy and cheap to implement as well as simple to understand for the consumer.
So, my idea would be to sell a $20 24 hour pass, and a $35 48 hour pass. Lets say you just log into your Tesla account, or go onto an app on your phone, select the option you want and pay for it. The system recognizes it and activates it based on your car's VIN. Now you can make your roadtrip with supercharging all taken care of. It's a good deal for those traveling cross country as it's much cheaper than gas would cost. But it also discourages local free loaders as a pass would cost much more than charging at home. A third option of monthly or yearly subscriptions can also be offered for those with extreme driving needs or who may need the network due to a lack of other charging options.
So, my idea would be to sell a $20 24 hour pass, and a $35 48 hour pass. Lets say you just log into your Tesla account, or go onto an app on your phone, select the option you want and pay for it. The system recognizes it and activates it based on your car's VIN. Now you can make your roadtrip with supercharging all taken care of. It's a good deal for those traveling cross country as it's much cheaper than gas would cost. But it also discourages local free loaders as a pass would cost much more than charging at home. A third option of monthly or yearly subscriptions can also be offered for those with extreme driving needs or who may need the network due to a lack of other charging options.
plankeye
That Vegan EV Guy
Yes. It has been said MANY times, the superchargers aren't for local charging, And certainly not meant to be anybody's only charging option.
If you live in an apartment without a way to charge, and your workplace doesn't provide charging, then you really aren't a candidate for owning an EV. At least not at this time in your life.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
That won't work. It will end up doing the exact opposite. Either: 1) No one would use them at all, making the EVs less convenient for travel; or 2) The lines would just get longer, and longer, and longer... It would never be profitable. It would never fix anything. It would only make things worse.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
They already have monitoring equipment installed, it's in the car. They know exactly what the car is doing.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I don't believe there should be any attempt to discourage anyone from driving electric.
Apartment Dwellers - Since most commutes are not more than 40-to-60 miles round trip, I doubt they would need to charge daily. This is why Tesla Motors insists upon a 200 mile range, minimum. Maybe every other day, in cold climates.
Car Services -- What makes these business drivers any different from door-to-door salesmen, insurance agents, or realtors who spend a lot of time in their cars racking up miles? Miles are miles. There should be no discrimination, or division.
Car Services -- What makes these business drivers any different from door-to-door salesmen, insurance agents, or realtors who spend a lot of time in their cars racking up miles? Miles are miles. There should be no discrimination, or division.
It is a very slippery slope to randomly, purposefully, or arbitrarily determine that someone is 'abusing' the Supercharger network by charging their car when they need to cover a given distance to their destination. If you buy the car, and you need to charge, plug in. I'd rather see someone charging than loading their car on a flat bed. The cost of charging is 'worth it' for accelerating the transition to sustainable transport.
So far, the only actual 'abuse' that has been identified is cars that park in a Supercharger space for an extreme length of time -- without charging at all.
doublejj
Member
So maybe a flat use fee if you use your local supercharger & free use of remote superchargers for long trips....easy
I don't mind spending $10 a charge when traveling. Even better $10 for the charge and $10 an hour parking after the charge is done.
However, very few locals will be willing to pay that, as it would be cheaper to charge at home. And they certainly would not leave there car they any longer than necessary.
I've already seen large numbers of locals at San Diego, and most of the LA area chargers and bay area superchargers. That is with only the relatively few Model S and X owners. Once the Model 3 is out, if there is nothing done to curb locals charging, all superchargers near population centers will be nearly useless, and that will make traveling through those areas extremely difficult.
It's a bit like saying it's elitist to own a large dog, because people who live in apartments can have them.
At this point EVs are best for people who can charge at home or work. It's not elitist, it's a practical thing.
As the infrastructure builds out, viable ownership will widen to include people who apartments and condos without EV charging available.
I had thought of that, too. I don't have a perfect workaround, but possibly at peak charging times, Tesla could disable 90%-100% charging at superchargers. It's inefficient for Superchargers to be doing that charging, anyways, because any old Level 2 (or even Level 1?) charger can satisfy that charging rate.
Bimbels
GoldMember
Well a lot of people would disagree with you. Elon Musk among them.
ZAKEEUS
Member
I realize that I don't live in California. Just because there is a line at the superchargers in a state that probably has more Teslas per square mile than any other place in the country, doesn't mean it's abuse. If people are charging 20-40 minutes each, it's not unreasonable for there to be a line. I think the supercharger situation will always be similar to what 18 wheelers have to deal with (I realize this is an odd comparison for many reasons, but the amount of time it takes to fill a 200 gallon and the limited number of truck stops makes the two similar) sometimes options are limited any you'll have to wait in a line. It won't matter if Model 3 owners have to pay per use or pay extra to have supercharging activated.
I don't think they are going to make us pay for supercharging on road trips because in many cases that would lead to choosing an ICE car for road trips. Free long distance travel could even be included in base price but I think not.
Then there is local supercharging and it's clear something needs to be done with it. The best solution is that everyone can still charge as much as they like but if the supercharger is closer than say 50 miles from the car home (=where it spends most of its time) then you pay per charge.
Yes there are cases where you would have to pay for example $2 to get home from a road trip but that is not a big deal.
Then there is local supercharging and it's clear something needs to be done with it. The best solution is that everyone can still charge as much as they like but if the supercharger is closer than say 50 miles from the car home (=where it spends most of its time) then you pay per charge.
Yes there are cases where you would have to pay for example $2 to get home from a road trip but that is not a big deal.
plankeye
That Vegan EV Guy
I think common sense is a better term.
Do you really believe that the superchargers are intended for apartment dwellers to do their daily charging, even though Elon has reiterated on more than one occasion what their true purpose is?
There's a reason they're placed very close to main highways, but typically in smaller towns between larger metropolitan areas.
I'd pay $20, but I only say that to get @Red Sage amped up.
I think it would be very difficult for Tesla to implement any kind of pay as you go model on supercharger access. Once Tesla assigns a pay per use value, it becomes nearly impossible to sell lifetime access.
Everyone can do the math and even S owners would be unwilling to accept a $2000 charge if they know they can pay per use for $10. I think that including supercharger access into to cost of the car is the only practical solution for Tesla at this point.
If Tesla can segregate users of the superchargers by offering full service vs. self serve stalls were full service offers faster charging or better access, then you can separate a lifetime fee from pay as you go. Having Tesla employees at the location would also stop abuse.
The point is that Tesla owners that paid money upfront for the lifetime service must receive a clear benefit over pay as you go users otherwise they will not be willing to accept the upfront charge.
Finally, asking some people to be considerate of others or asking them to stop acting like jerks is really a losing battle. There needs to be penalties for abusers or someone policing the superchargers.
Everyone can do the math and even S owners would be unwilling to accept a $2000 charge if they know they can pay per use for $10. I think that including supercharger access into to cost of the car is the only practical solution for Tesla at this point.
If Tesla can segregate users of the superchargers by offering full service vs. self serve stalls were full service offers faster charging or better access, then you can separate a lifetime fee from pay as you go. Having Tesla employees at the location would also stop abuse.
The point is that Tesla owners that paid money upfront for the lifetime service must receive a clear benefit over pay as you go users otherwise they will not be willing to accept the upfront charge.
Finally, asking some people to be considerate of others or asking them to stop acting like jerks is really a losing battle. There needs to be penalties for abusers or someone policing the superchargers.
ZAKEEUS
Member
If supercharging is to remain free, something similar to this needs to happen....I'm on a trip and arrive at supercharger, when I plug in, I receive a message on my phone for my expected charge time. When charging is near complete, I receive a 2nd message that includes the number of people waiting, and the amount of time I have to move before I have to pay a parking fee.
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