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It also makes absolutely zero sense not to include AP on the 3. Isn't Tesla's goal to develop and perfect autonomous driving?
How can you possibly hope to achieve this without equipping your "mass market" car with a way to accrue data on autopilot use and driving habits?
There's a reason crowd-sourced beta testing is a thing. It's insane to forgo an easy opportunity to acquire 5x more data toward their ultimate goal for any reason.
This line of thinking suggests AP will come standard on every single M3.
Stop repeating same old bean-counter arguments. They are pure BS in tesla world.
Model 3 will be a compelling car. Not a crippled, "we must not hurt S/X sales" weird-mobile aka leaf or i3.
Model 3 will be as good an EV as possible with today/future technology without too big per-unit loss from the start.
The battery will be as big as necessary to get ~240 EPA range.
There will be SC, there will be AP and there will be 17" center touchscreen.
No magic will get 240 EPA miles out from 50kWh battery.
Model 3 will be a compelling car. Not a crippled, "we must not hurt S/X sales" weird-mobile aka leaf or i3.
Model 3 will be as good an EV as possible with today/future technology without too big per-unit loss from the start.
The battery will be as big as necessary to get ~240 EPA range.
There will be SC, there will be AP and there will be 17" center touchscreen.
No magic will get 240 EPA miles out from 50kWh battery.
To play devil's advocate, EM said the Model 3 will have 200 "real world miles". People are assuming that means more than 200 EPA miles, but in fact if you interpret real world miles are long distance traveled miles at 55mph/65mph, then the EPA rating (which includes city driving) might be in fact lower than 200 miles. Thus a 50kwh battery pack could be sufficient.
anxman
Member
Model 3 will absolutely have Autopilot and I'm willing to bet money that it has a new AP suite. I don't believe it will be REVEALED exactly next month, but it will be included on the production car. I predict it will include 360 cameras + radar + ultrasonic.
The Roadster came very close.
Okay, technically it was 53kWh, the body had to be carbon fiber and the payload could only be two people and a toothbrush, but they achieved 240 EPA getting on for ten years ago in a car that has a surprisingly high Cd. (I think it's 0.3, but I'll need to check)
Astonishing, really.
But I think your point is still very valid. 60kWh would be my preferred ball-park.
But who knows what they will pull out of the hat.
Am I correct in thinking that Tesla did say that they can go quicker-than-Ludicrous but 2.8 is enough to grab everyone's attention for now?
Eta: Wow. According to Wikipedia, the Roadster's Cd is 0.35-0.36. (Obviously the CdA is good)
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Actually I think 244 miles EPA will be the cut off.
I can't see Elon ever wanting to release a vehicle on his watch that has a lower range than the original Roadster. I think it's partly a drive for continual engineering improvement; partly about moving on from some of Tesla's darkest days.
I can't see Elon ever wanting to release a vehicle on his watch that has a lower range than the original Roadster. I think it's partly a drive for continual engineering improvement; partly about moving on from some of Tesla's darkest days.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
If Tesla Motors becomes so overwhelmingly busy building 500,000-to-700,000 of the Model ≡ per year that they can no longer manage to build 60,000 of the Model S per year, I'm certain that Elon Musk will shed not a single tear.
Or - and this is the painful one for current owners - allocate resources to manufacturing upgrades for older models (E.g. Roadster 3.0 upgrades will most likely have to be a future Roadster Maximum Plaid purchase).
Everyone assumes that Tesla will want to upgrade the S and the X and maybe it will. But it probably won't happen at a price and in a timeframe that will suit customers conditioned by the shear abundance of conventional vehicles.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
If there are 250,000+ Reservations/Preorders for the Model ≡ by October 1, 2017... Tesla Motors will be sure to expand their manufacturing footprint so that they can reduce The WAIT below six months worldwide by Q2 2018... And to less than three months by Q2 2019 if at all possible. People who need a larger car will still get the Model S or Model X.
Yes yes, I see your point. But if I was there that I just assumed that everything Elon/Tesla says is a lie, then I would not think about buying any car form Tesla, and sell whatever I should have purchased from them earlier if I had. I do not accept that because Elon says that TM3 will have more then 200 miles EPA range, it has to be less then or exactly 200 miles EPA range...
Yes, your right. But at the moment all we can do is speculate, and in my opinion it is only reasonable to speculate based on that what is promised is correct - or at least more or less correct, not that it will not happen.
... on the other hand, I was waiting for this car even when they just had promised 200 miles range, so I would not drop to make an reservation as long as it gets at least 200 miles EPA range. But that is close to my limit, so not much below. But I would be very disappointed if it get the same EPA range as the TMS60 or below.
This is very provocative, and I appreciate it. I'm thinking the first "real" EV will be the one designed primarily around the requirements of the new drivetrain and AP suite, and not based on the old ICE requirements. Right now, EVs are like the first horseless carriages. It wasn't until later that auto designers (and manufacturers) threw away the old template and designed to the new form. Tesla is most likely the company to lead the way in that revolution.
Here's to the new design Model 4!
Dude. The S is a big car. The 3 is a small car. They're unrelated. Look at compact vs full size Mercedes. There are all kinds of whiz bang features in small, cheap C class Benzes - and some of them go damn fast and handle better than their big brothers. They still don't compete with the MBZ S class. This is the same scenario - the Model S is a big heavy car at a different price point. Also - who the hell cares what M3 does to used Model S values. These are just toys dude.
I may place a reservation for a Model 3 just to have one as an extra vehicle - but it won't take the place of my S and I won't make it a daily driver - it's a compact car.
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Agree along with the vast majority of others on this thread. I still don't understand the logic behind the S getting crushed theory.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The initial 'promises' made for the Tesla Roadster and Model S were based upon a continuous speed of 55 MPH over level ground during perfect weather conditions with no headwind -- not an EPA rating. Both vehicles achieved those goals. When driven under extreme reduced speed the Model S has achieved over 400 miles of range multiple times, while the 'D' variants have managed over 500 miles. What Elon Musk said about the Model ≡ was that it must achieve a Real World range of 'at least 200 miles' or 'over 200 miles' without such qualifiers. Thus, the EPA rated range must be significantly higher than a 200 mile minimum. I believe it will be 225-to-250 miles for the base version of the Model ≡.
Though the Model ≡ will certainly be smallER than the Model S, it still won't be small ENOUGH for people who prefer compacts or sub-compacts. I expect its exterior dimensions will be rather similar to the BMW 3-Series Sedan, but slightly longer and wider overall, with a longer wheelbase. That will allow for a spacious cabin which, paired with generous trunk and frunk storage, will allow the Model ≡ to qualify for a Midsize classification, even within what most would term a Compact footprint. Honda managed a similar feat with the 1990 Accord, which qualified as Midsize over the objections of the Detroit Big Three.
