Model 3 Tires for Winter: UHP All-Season vs. Dedicated Winter Tires - Opinions?

[MrBoylan]

Hey, folks,

I was driving my Model 3 Performance (P-) this weekend, hit a black ice patch on a corner (very slowly) and fishtailed out a bit. It was a little unsettling as this is just a hint of what real winter weather will be like. So now I'm on the fence between getting an Ultra High Performance All-Season tire, like the Bridgestone RE980AS or a dedicated winter tire like the Michelin X-Ice Xi3. Both are really highly rated on Tire Rack.

The RE980AS would probably be good year-round and would handle better in wet/dry conditions, but the Michelin Xi3 would be better on snow/ice. I'm in NYC, so we do get a fair amount of snow and ice, but the Model 3 is our second car so it will probably not see a lot of action this winter. I do want the added safety of dedicated winter tires and the latest version of the Michelin Xi3 does seem to handle pretty well in dry/wet in addition to excellent performance in ice/snow. So I'm leaning toward these and just swapping back in the factory tires in the Spring.

Is anyone driving on either of these tires already in your Model 3? If so, what are your opinions? Would you buy them again? Or do you swear by something else?

BTW, these are for the 18-inch Aero wheels, Performance all wheel drive Model 3.

 

[Fletcher8969]

I have driven the michelin's for last few winters on my VW GTI. I love them. No expericence with the Bridgestones. I just picked up my M3 on Friday and will be putting Xi3s on it this week. I'll let you know if I feel differently but I'm confident they're a great winter performance tire.

 

[longshot49]

Snow tires are better for winter. period. It is not an opinion but objective fact.

Go on YouTube and check braking / acceleration differences between so-called "all seasons" and winters.

 

[MrBoylan]

Snow tires are better for winter. period. It is not an opinion but objective fact.

Go on YouTube and check braking / acceleration differences between so-called "all seasons" and winters.

Generally speaking, generalizations are great!

Both of the tires I included here are rated 9 out of 10 (or close to it) on Tire Rack for snow/ice performance. The stock Michelin Primacy MXM4 "all season touring" tire is rated 5.8 for snow/ice performance. So not all "All Weather Tires" are created equal.

I know a 9.1 rating of snow performance on an All-Weather Tire (RE980AS) isn't necessarily better than an 8.8 rating on a dedicated snow tire (X-Ice Xi3), as these ratings are compared to their peers within the category. But there are other trade-offs, like wet/dry performance, ride comfort, overall handling, road noise, etc. A dedicated snow tire is better on snow, but what if I'm doing 90% of my winter driving on dry or wet roads?

I do appreciate the feedback, and will check out a few more videos. But also hoping for some folks with experience with these specific tires to chime in.

 

[MrBoylan]

I have driven the michelin's for last few winters on my VW GTI. I love them. No expericence with the Bridgestones. I just picked up my M3 on Friday and will be putting Xi3s on it this week. I'll let you know if I feel differently but I'm confident they're a great winter performance tire.

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Do you get a ton of snow where you are or a mix of snow and rain during the winter? And do you feel that the Michelins do well on regular wet driving?

 

[Bimmerville]

All season tires, are by nature, a compromise. They will never be as good as a true snow tire. I mounted the Michelin X-Ice 3s on my 3 two weeks ago and have driven in 3-4" of snow. They seem fine. It's a little early to say that they're the best snow tire I ever driven, but so far I've got no complaints. They're relatively quiet, and seem to handle fine in rain and dry.

 

[Fletcher8969]

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Do you get a ton of snow where you are or a mix of snow and rain during the winter? And do you feel that the Michelins do well on regular wet driving?

I live is the Seattle area so most I'm driving in cold and wet, 30s usually just above freezing, with a few snow days thrown in. A few cold but dry days thrown in as Spring approaches. But we do have a lot of hills and sometimes that means icey roads (hills) in the morning or at night. Seattle isn't very good a dealing with snow because it's sort of rare. In both the cold/wet and in the icey and snowy the Xi3 has worked very well. I've often driven up unplowed hills while AWD cars with all seasons are sitting on the side of the road. I've never gotten stuck or had any issues. That's why I plan to get them again. I'm guessing the Bridgestones would be comparable. But I'm a big believer in dedicated winter tires whenever the tempature is below 7c/44f in the wet, dry or snow.

 

[longshot49]

It's not blanket generalizations for the fun of it. It just is simple fact : softer / different type of compound, different type of thread.

Any winter tires will outperform an All-season tire, even more so if they have a few years into them.

The Michelin X-Ice score / test top tier for a few years running. Solid choice.

 

[taraquin]

If possible chose the Nokian R3 over the Michelins. They are about equal at ice, snow etc, but the Nokians have lower rolling resistance and many think they are less noisy. When outside-temps are below 5C the rubbercompound in summer and all-season-tyres get very hard and noise and rolling-resistance increase a lot. I have Nokian R2 and Goodyear allseasons as summer-tyres on my Model S. When outside temp is less than 10C the allseasons becomes noisier and the consumption increases a lot. When driving in the city at temps around 0C the Nokians consume about 20% less energy. I am not kidding, it`s insane, I have tested this every spring and autumn the last 5 years and I have a route I drive almost daily. With the Nokians on days with little traffic and climate OFF consumption is always 40-60Wh\km (The route is sligthly downhill), with the allseasons I have never gotten below 50Wh\km, typically I get around 50-70Wh\km. When outside temps are 10-15C or more difference is less, but still the Nokians use 5-10% less energy.

 

[RiverBrick]

All-season tires are really only 3-season tires.

However, the "all-weather" class can be considered in places with mild winters.

 

[Fletcher8969]

If possible chose the Nokian R3 over the Michelins. They are about equal at ice, snow etc, but the Nokians have lower rolling resistance and many think they are less noisy. When outside-temps are below 5C the rubbercompound in summer and all-season-tyres get very hard and noise and rolling-resistance increase a lot. I have Nokian R2 and Goodyear allseasons as summer-tyres on my Model S. When outside temp is less than 10C the allseasons becomes noisier and the consumption increases a lot. When driving in the city at temps around 0C the Nokians consume about 20% less energy. I am not kidding, it`s insane, I have tested this every spring and autumn the last 5 years and I have a route I drive almost daily. With the Nokians on days with little traffic and climate OFF consumption is always 40-60Wh\km (The route is sligthly downhill), with the allseasons I have never gotten below 50Wh\km, typically I get around 50-70Wh\km. When outside temps are 10-15C or more difference is less, but still the Nokians use 5-10% less energy.

That's great info, thanks!

 

[MrBoylan]

If possible chose the Nokian R3 over the Michelins. They are about equal at ice, snow etc, but the Nokians have lower rolling resistance and many think they are less noisy.
... When driving in the city at temps around 0C the Nokians consume about 20% less energy. I am not kidding, it`s insane, I have tested this every spring and autumn the last 5 years and I have a route I drive almost daily. With the Nokians on days with little traffic and climate OFF consumption is always 40-60Wh\km (The route is sligthly downhill), with the allseasons I have never gotten below 50Wh\km, typically I get around 50-70Wh\km. When outside temps are 10-15C or more difference is less, but still the Nokians use 5-10% less energy.

That's interesting. The Michelin Xi3 also is supposed to have low rolling resistance (for a winter tire) and did better than the other Winter tires for fuel efficiency in Tire Rack's tests, but I don't think it would match the results you describe with the Nokian. Seems like the Nokians are not as widely available but I'll see what I can find on them.

Thanks!

 

[RiverBrick]

The R3 actually did worse than the R2 for rolling resistance and noise on Consumer Reports' latest tire tests.

 

[coleAK]

Generally speaking, generalizations are great!

Both of the tires I included here are rated 9 out of 10 (or close to it) on Tire Rack for snow/ice performance. The stock Michelin Primacy MXM4 "all season touring" tire is rated 5.8 for snow/ice performance. So not all "All Weather Tires" are created equal.

I know a 9.1 rating of snow performance on an All-Weather Tire (RE980AS) isn't necessarily better than an 8.8 rating on a dedicated snow tire (X-Ice Xi3), as these ratings are compared to their peers within the category. But there are other trade-offs, like wet/dry performance, ride comfort, overall handling, road noise, etc. A dedicated snow tire is better on snow, but what if I'm doing 90% of my winter driving on dry or wet roads?

I do appreciate the feedback, and will check out a few more videos. But also hoping for some folks with experience with these specific tires to chime in.

So the rateings on tire rack are subjective user reviews not scientific studies. Also the ratings would be considered categorical ordinal data. Not numeric ratio or interval so no real inference could be made regarding how much better is worse a compared product is. That being said the rating numbers can not be used to compare tires of different classes (like all seasons vs winter) objectively. I guess what I’m saying is regarding performance there is so much variability around subjective data and user expectations and use conditions. I would take the tire rack user ratings with a grain of salt.

I’ll use the example of a tire I am very familiar with the BFG KO2 as i run them in the summer on my LX. They get very high ratings for snow and ice, similar to the x-ice. But a few years ago I was stuck running them a month longer than I wanted to waiting on my new set of Nokinas to arrive. Compared with any quality dedicated winter tire they were terrable: breaking sucked, sliding, over steer, under steer,....

Winter tires out perform all seasons on snow and ice, period. Now for each person they have to decide if they want/need much better: stopping, starting, handeling,... on winter roads or not. When we were in NE TN for 4 years durring residency we used all seasons since we didn’t get much snow there.

I buddy of mine who just traded in his model S on a model 3 just put Hakka 9’s on the 3 after riding in mine. His first time ever running winter tires in 12 years in Alaska. He called me after his drive home and said yes he made it around before but was stupid for ever running all seasons in the winter. It is night and day.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Actually, if there is no snow...

 

[longshot49]

Actually, if there is no snow...

It's not all about snow/wetness but also temperature.

(Oups edit : presumed the winters would've been better in the cold)

 

[coleAK]

Actually, if there is no snow...

Well again a lot of variables. How long did he drive on the summers before the test? Probably long enough to get them some what warmed up. He should have done the same test summer vs winter on snow then average the numbers. I would bet he didn’t as the summer tires would have been pretty much undriveable in that s2000 on the snow.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

it is what it is. just another data point. I was surprised as well, for how well the 'summer' tires worked in the cold...

 

[Bobbo8]

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Do you get a ton of snow where you are or a mix of snow and rain during the winter? And do you feel that the Michelins do well on regular wet driving?

Just put on the Michelin Xi3 yesterday and impressed with the handling and they look good. Haven’t had them on any substantial snow yet but the reviews i read were good.

 

[MrBoylan]

Actually, if there is no snow...

Interesting, so that's an ad for why *NOT* to use winter tires on dry roads, at least if you want to be able to stop quickly. Significantly worse braking performance for the winter tires vs. the summer tires in winter temperatures. I thought it was going to go the other way. But if there had been ice or snow, I'm sure it would have gone differently.

The other thing I need to consider is the TPMS sensors. If I'm going to be swapping out tires twice a year, I should probably buy a set of these for the new tires, right? I've heard they can break when swapping between different sets of tires. Tempted to just buy a separate set of winter wheels for the car as it would make things a lot simpler.