Model 3 Tires for Winter: UHP All-Season vs. Dedicated Winter Tires - Opinions?

[dfwatt]

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I bought a set of 4 Aero wheels with the Michelin MXM4 all season tires with less than 200 miles (without pressure sensors) for only $500 from a Model 3 owner who went aftermarket. Then I mounted the Pirelli Sottozero II's on them. I would have bought them from Tesla because they have a very good deal ($2000 last time I looked) but they were out of stock when I needed them so I ended up saving some money with the take-offs. I've seen sets like this with pressure sensors for around $1000-$1200 almost new which I think is a fair price. But you might ask your local service center how much just the Aero wheels are if you don't want the Sottozero II's.

Personally, I think the Sottozero II's are a good tire with an undeservedly bad rap. They are a real winter tire meaning they have a cold weather only rubber compound but they avoid the squirmy imprecise tread blocks of a more extreme winter tire. The upside is you don't lose your driving enjoyment on bare or bare/wet pavement. In fact, they are more predictable and easier to drive hard in the twisties than the MXM4's. And they are quiet! The downside is you can't run them in warm weather without basically trashing them and their tread life will be a bit less even if you only run them in the winter. It's the winter rubber compound (which is why they work so well in the cold and on ice and snow).

I used to buy the most badass winter tires I could find but, especially on a Model 3, they are over-kill. I found when the roads are treacherous, all the other drivers slow down to 50 mph or less. And if you know how to drive in snow and ice, and you're not going 70 mph on compact snow and ice, those badass winter tires are not necessary. I found they ruined my driving enjoyment on the 75% of winter roads that are basically free from snow/ice (where I drive). The Pirellis bring MORE fun to winter driving and more than enough grip and security when the road is covered in snow/ice (assuming you do not winter ice race). The other traffic is still going to be slowing you up if you're in a Model 3 with even the "lowly" Pirelli's on. The Model 3 with the Sottozero II's is so good on ice and snow that a tire with more snow and ice grip is just going to make you frustrated that everyone else in "only" driving 40-50 mph.

Probably. Every shop has different employees but Costco is probably better than average by a decent amount. Once you know the lift points on a Model 3 and the proper torque value and air pressure, tire work on a Model 3 is no different from the rest of the fleet. And I believe Costco is better than average at instructing their employees to not simply guess on those things.

Agree with the first three paragraphs, and for that reason, you might check out the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+ - they are decent in snow and nothing short of stunning on dry and wet pavement. Really close to the 4S, and they are decently quiet, and fairly smooth.

As for Costco, I wouldn't let anyone pick the car up without the special hockey puck contraption - the pick up points are incredibly slippery unless you have a pin, or something, in the central hole, and too boot, it can't be too deep or it can puncture the battery compartment.

 

[StealthP3D]

View attachment 360588 View attachment 360588

Agree with the first three paragraphs, and for that reason, you might check out the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+ - they are decent in snow and nothing short of stunning on dry and wet pavement. Really close to the 4S, and they are decently quiet, and fairly smooth.

Thanks for the tip.

As for Costco, I wouldn't let anyone pick the car up without the special hockey puck contraption - the pick up points are incredibly slippery unless you have a pin, or something, in the central hole, and too boot, it can't be too deep or it can puncture the battery compartment.

Yes, pucks with locators make it almost foolproof. I bet Costco would use the pucks if you brought them in. That said, Tesla Mobile Service techs jack up the entire side of a car using a regular floor jack and I've never heard of one using locating pucks.

 

[mswlogo]

I bought a set of 4 Aero wheels with the Michelin MXM4 all season tires with less than 200 miles (without pressure sensors) for only $500 from a Model 3 owner who went aftermarket. Then I mounted the Pirelli Sottozero II's on them. I would have bought them from Tesla because they have a very good deal ($2000 last time I looked) but they were out of stock when I needed them so I ended up saving some money with the take-offs. I've seen sets like this with pressure sensors for around $1000-$1200 almost new which I think is a fair price. But you might ask your local service center how much just the Aero wheels are if you don't want the Sottozero II's.

Personally, I think the Sottozero II's are a good tire with an undeservedly bad rap. They are a real winter tire meaning they have a cold weather only rubber compound but they avoid the squirmy imprecise tread blocks of a more extreme winter tire. The upside is you don't lose your driving enjoyment on bare or bare/wet pavement. In fact, they are more predictable and easier to drive hard in the twisties than the MXM4's. And they are quiet! The downside is you can't run them in warm weather without basically trashing them and their tread life will be a bit less even if you only run them in the winter. It's the winter rubber compound (which is why they work so well in the cold and on ice and snow).

I used to buy the most badass winter tires I could find but, especially on a Model 3, they are over-kill. I found when the roads are treacherous, all the other drivers slow down to 50 mph or less. And if you know how to drive in snow and ice, and you're not going 70 mph on compact snow and ice, those badass winter tires are not necessary. I found they ruined my driving enjoyment on the 75% of winter roads that are basically free from snow/ice (where I drive). The Pirellis bring MORE fun to winter driving and more than enough grip and security when the road is covered in snow/ice (assuming you do not winter ice race). The other traffic is still going to be slowing you up if you're in a Model 3 with even the "lowly" Pirelli's on. The Model 3 with the Sottozero II's is so good on ice and snow that a tire with more snow and ice grip is just going to make you frustrated that everyone else in "only" driving 40-50 mph.



Probably. Every shop has different employees but Costco is probably better than average by a decent amount. Once you know the lift points on a Model 3 and the proper torque value and air pressure, tire work on a Model 3 is no different from the rest of the fleet. And I believe Costco is better than average at instructing their employees to not simply guess on those things.

Problem with Sottozero for me was rolling resistence. I take enough of a hit with cold weather not to make it any worse with lower rolling resistance. Also because they wear out faster, a lot faster, they will cost at least double to own over R3 or X-Ice (if not triple) because you will replace them at least twice as often. And with these crazy winters, it could be 75F one day and 20F the next.

It’s really your own throw of the dice as far as extreme winter handling vs better cold dry handling. I could be going 70 mph on a dry road in winter and a dump truck loses its cargo in front of me. Which tire would I rather be in? Any performance snow tire including Sottozero. But if I need to get up a steep hill that never got plowed very well, I want real snow tire (R3 or X-Ice). I personally run into the later way more often in winter. And I’ve been stuck (momentarily) with Nokian R2’s in a 4x4 Jeep. And only a studded snow would have been better in that situation. But those are treacherous on anything but snow pack or ice.

But the guy in Alaska is on snow pack for 4 months. And a studded snow is right for him.

I would not tell anyone to not get a performance snow, that’s their call. I’d also expect nobody tell me I don’t need a real snow tire. I do. How often I really need it will vary every winter.

The X-Ice felt a little squirmy when I first put them on. Not sure if it was partly due to breaking in and removing the supposed compound on them. As well as temperature drop. But they feel much better now. Not sure if it’s because I intuitively adapted my driving style for them. I’ll know better when I put OEM tires back on.

 

[StealthP3D]

Problem with Sottozero for me was rolling resistence. I take enough of a hit with cold weather not to make it any worse with lower rolling resistance. Also because they wear out faster, a lot faster, they will cost at least double to own over R3 or X-Ice (if not triple) because you will replace them at least twice as often. And with these crazy winters, it could be 75F one day and 20F the next.

It’s really your own throw of the dice as far as extreme winter handling vs better cold dry handling. I could be going 70 mph on a dry road in winter and a dump truck loses its cargo in front of me. Which tire would I rather be in? Any performance snow tire including Sottozero. But if I need to get up a steep hill that never got plowed very well, I want real snow tire (R3 or X-Ice). I personally run into the later way more often in winter. And I’ve been stuck (momentarily) with Nokian R2’s in a 4x4 Jeep. And only a studded snow would have been better in that situation. But those are treacherous on anything but snow pack or ice.

But the guy in Alaska is on snow pack for 4 months. And a studded snow is right for him.

I would not tell anyone to not get a performance snow, that’s their call. I’d also expect nobody tell me I don’t need a real snow tire. I do. How often I really need it will vary every winter.

The X-Ice felt a little squirmy when I first put them on. Not sure if it was partly due to breaking in and removing the supposed compound on them. As well as temperature drop. But they feel much better now. Not sure if it’s because I intuitively adapted my driving style for them. I’ll know better when I put OEM tires back on.

Just to be clear, I'm not telling anyone what tire to get, just recommending that drivers appraise what they really need considering their winter driving skill, the vehicle they will be used on and how often the conditions will actually seriously challenge the combination of the two. The Model 3 is good enough on slick surfaces that it really does change the equation. I drive mine in some of the worst winter conditions anywhere and it's the biggest limitation is the 5.5 inches of ground clearance, not the Sottozero II's. The extra snow/ice traction of the most badass winter tires isn't going to significantly negate snow depths that turn the under fairing into a snow sled.

BTW, the Sottozero II's are a "real" winter tire. It's the rubber compound that makes them a winter tire. And you are really going to be glad when spring rolls around and you can put some tires on that allow the driving dynamics of the Model 3 to return. I couldn't make it through winter with tires that provided such vague feedback. But everyone is different so maybe that isn't even a consideration for you.

 

[taraquin]

In Norway many people bought the Sottozero 2 as they were the only available factory-tire for a while before Tesla also added Nokian R2 and Nokian hakka 7 studded. The biggest issue with Sottozero is the rolling resistance, and they perform bad on icy roads (still far better than all season). In snow, wet and dry they are very good. I have heard of people using them all year and was satisfied with that. If you sometimes encounter snow, rarely encounter ice, dont care about high consumption and have the option to use another car or have snowchains on the really bad days, then they will be a better deal than the all seasons for all year use and far better in winter For the Model 3 standard range and mid range I would consider getting Nokian R2\R3 og Continental Contivikingcontact 6\7 due to the significantly lower rolling resistance alone, BUT those tires should not be used in the summer.

 

[mswlogo]

In Norway many people bought the Sottozero 2 as they were the only available factory-tire for a while before Tesla also added Nokian R2 and Nokian hakka 7 studded. The biggest issue with Sottozero is the rolling resistance, and they perform bad on icy roads (still far better than all season). In snow, wet and dry they are very good. I have heard of people using them all year and was satisfied with that. If you sometimes encounter snow, rarely encounter ice, dont care about high consumption and have the option to use another car or have snowchains on the really bad days, then they will be a better deal than the all seasons for all year use and far better in winter For the Model 3 standard range and mid range I would consider getting Nokian R2\R3 og Continental Contivikingcontact 6\7 due to the significantly lower rolling resistance alone, BUT those tires should not be used in the summer.

So Tesla offers Nokian officially in Norway?

 

[StealthP3D]

The biggest issue with Sottozero is the rolling resistance, and they perform bad on icy roads (still far better than all season). In snow, wet and dry they are very good. I have heard of people using them all year and was satisfied with that.

The reports of bad performance of the Sottozero II's on ice are hard to reconcile with my experience. I would discount the opinion of ANYONE who has driven a winter tire through the summer season (even if not driving through 100 degree days). Even if the peak air temperatures are only 60 or 70 degrees, the road can reach well over 100F and the rubber compound can climb much higher than that. "Cooking" the rubber in a real winter tire like the Sottozero, can permanently turn it into an all-season radial. It's also important to keep the air pressures up to reduce peak tread temperatures, particularly for extended highway running with a full load.

Winter tires with their modern rubber compounds are amazing things but, like most high-performance things, can be ruined quickly if not used within their design parameters. Running Sottozero II's through the summer is ignorance, plain and simple. This is one reason why you will see such a variation in user reports.

 

[taraquin]

So Tesla offers Nokian officially in Norway?

No. I was talking about the Model S when I bought mine.

 

[mswlogo]

No. I was talking about the Model S when I bought mine.

In Norway many people bought the Sottozero 2 as they were the only available factory-tire for a while before Tesla also added Nokian R2 and Nokian hakka 7 studded. The biggest issue with Sottozero is the rolling resistance, and they perform bad on icy roads (still far better than all season).

Then what did you mean by this? Regardless of Model Tesla

 

[taraquin]

The reports of bad performance of the Sottozero II's on ice are hard to reconcile with my experience. I would discount the opinion of ANYONE who has driven a winter tire through the summer season (even if not driving through 100 degree days). Even if the peak air temperatures are only 60 or 70 degrees, the road can reach well over 100F and the rubber compound can climb much higher than that. "Cooking" the rubber in a real winter tire like the Sottozero, can permanently turn it into an all-season radial. It's also important to keep the air pressures up to reduce peak tread temperatures, particularly for extended highway running with a full load.

Winter tires with their modern rubber compounds are amazing things but, like most high-performance things, can be ruined quickly if not used within their design parameters. Running Sottozero II's through the summer is ignorance, plain and simple. This is one reason why you will see such a variation in user reports.

I would never recommend driving with anything other than summer or all season in summer and wintertires in winter If someone dont want to change tires and use same all year long even if you have z few weeks of snow etc, I would recommend continental winter tires over all season. The few guys I have heard about using sottozeros in summer said they performed well, far better than tires with nordic compound. I wouldnt have done it myself. As for the performance on icy roads, all test I have seen comparing continental winter with nordic show the brake distance and performance in general on ice is a lot worse. A test winning continentaltire performs like a bad nordic one. On dry and wet roads, continental are superiour, in snow they are almost equal.

 

[mswlogo]

I would never recommend driving with anything other than summer or all season in summer and wintertires in winter If someone dont want to change tires and use same all year long even if you have z few weeks of snow etc, I would recommend continental winter tires over all season. The few guys I have heard about using sottozeros in summer said they performed well, far better than tires with nordic compound. I wouldnt have done it myself. As for the performance on icy roads, all test I have seen comparing continental winter with nordic show the brake distance and performance in general on ice is a lot worse. A test winning continentaltire performs like a bad nordic one. On dry and wet roads, continental are superiour, in snow they are almost equal.

Keep in mind many tires available in Europe are not the same in USA. Continental makes some great snow tires. Their best ones are not available in the USA, like the Continental TS-860 (I'd run this tire for winter if I could get it). If I were to run a single tire year round it would be a Nokian WR G4 (All weather) tire.

 

[taraquin]

For comparing continental tires to nordic ones I found 2 norwegian tests, a few years old but still worth to read.
NAF vinterdekktest 2013 | resultater The Fulda tires is s continental tire, it's aweful on ice compared with the other tires. Braking distance on ice is 30% longer than best nordic tyre and 70% longer than studded. On wet and dry roads its very good.
Resultater fra hver testdisiplin (2012) same story with the Nokian WR continental tire. If you encounter icy roads several times a year I would chose nordic tires for ssfety alone

 

[taraquin]

Keep in mind many tires available in Europe are not the same in USA. Continental makes some great snow tires. Their best ones are not available in the USA, like the Continental TS-860 (I'd run this tire for winter if I could get it). If I were to run a single tire year round it would be a Nokian WR G4 (All weather) tire.

Ofcourse If you cant buy a tire then you dont have the option. If you are able to then I would recommend people who encounter icy roads several times a year to go for the nordic variety

 

[taraquin]

Then what did you mean by this? Regardless of Model Tesla

When I ordered Model S I could only chose Sottozero 2. A few months later Tesla added options for R2 snd hakka 7 In January the claim that you cdn order wintertires

 

[mswlogo]

When I ordered Model S I could only chose Sottozero 2. A few months later Tesla added options for R2 snd hakka 7 In January the claim that you cdn order wintertires

So you ARE saying Telsa officially supports Nokian tires in Norway on Model S. That's what I asked and you said no. I didn't care what model car it was.

 

[mswlogo]

For comparing continental tires to nordic ones I found 2 norwegian tests, a few years old but still worth to read.
NAF vinterdekktest 2013 | resultater The Fulda tires is s continental tire, it's aweful on ice compared with the other tires. Braking distance on ice is 30% longer than best nordic tyre and 70% longer than studded. On wet and dry roads its very good.
Resultater fra hver testdisiplin (2012) same story with the Nokian WR continental tire. If you encounter icy roads several times a year I would chose nordic tires for ssfety alone

I must be blind or something but I cannot find which tire of each brand they used on either link. Each brand has a fairly wide range of winter tires.

 

[taraquin]

So you ARE saying Telsa officially supports Nokian tires in Norway on Model S. That's what I asked and you said no. I didn't care what model car it was.

Yes. They officially supportit. Sorry for the misunderstanding, my english is a bit rusty

 

[taraquin]

I must be blind or something but I cannot find which tire of each brand they used on either link. Each brand has a fairly wide range of winter tires.

Vinterdekktest 2012
Stor test av vinterdekk 2013 ask if you need help navigation or translation is confusing if you use translate-software.

 

[mswlogo]

Those test results are highly suspicious. In 2013 (the tests you linked) Xi3 was #1 for non studded but dropped to #7 in 2018.

It's hard to see the raw data because they only display normalized rankings.

In 2018 they rated

Xi3 Dry Noise 10/10
Xi3 Wet Noise 9.7/10
Xi3 Ice Noise 7.0/10
Xi3 Snow Noise (Not Listed)

Xi3 Comfort (Noise) 9.7/10
​

R3 Dry Noise 9.8/10
R3 Wet Noise 9.7/10
R3 Snow Noise 9.8/10
R3 Ice Noise 8.1/10
R3 Comfort (Noise) 10/10

First there is no way R3 comes close to Xi3 regarding tire noise.

They gave Xi3 the best score on Dry Noise (most important) and yet they knocked it down to 9.7 for overall comfort noise. Yet the R3 Dry noise was 9.8 got a perfect score for Comfort Noise. They seemed to put heavy weight on Noise when on Ice I guess.

They don't cover efficiency but it's well noted the Nokian's do very well in that regard and Xi3 not to far behind. Efficiency is a big deal on Tesla's as well as tire noise.

It's all how you weight things on which tire will come out on top.

 

[taraquin]

It's not surprising that Xi3 has dropped, it's still the same tire as in 2013. All the other brands have made new tires. Continental has moved from Contivikingcontact 5 to 7. Nokian from R2 to R3 and so fort. Noisereadings slso vary greatly due to stiffness, dimensions etc, but I agree that the grading is fishy. The most interesting aspects are the performance on ice, snow, dry and wet. There the pros and cons with continental vd nordic tires really show. Rolling resistance is also important for EVs, both Nokian, Michelin and Continental has LRR-designs which has significantly lower consumption thsn Sottozero. For some, noise is also important, but not for me.