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Model 3 to have <60kW Supercharging?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Reeler, Jan 12, 2017.

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  1. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    Tesla is structuring the supercharging into two tiers. The below 60kW tier must be reserved for the Model 3?

    Similar L3 charging rate to the Bolt and LEAF.
     
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  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    60 kW charging rate is not the same as 60 kWh battery pack.

    Whether you have a 40 kWh or 100 kWh battery pack, your initial charging rate may be above 110 kW when the pack is empty and when your car is not paired with another occupied charging bay (1A paired with 1B...)

    If your car is paired, the initial charging rate won't be in the 100's kW but best could be 50's kW charging rate.

    If your battery is not empty but it's rather filled, initial charging rate won't be in the 100's either but much slower as it fills up.

    So the tier is about how fast the charging rate is, not about how small your Model ≡ battery pack is.
     
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  3. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    Why not have a bunch of tiers then?

    My prediction: Tier 1 for the Model 3 and Tier 2 for the Model S and X.
     
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  4. alseTrick

    alseTrick Active Member

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    Almost certainly not. Tesla is trying to accelerate the advent of widespread EV adoption, not hinder it. Many are thinking the 3 will even be capable of this 400+kW charging that's being talked about by ChargePoint and Elon.
     
  5. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    At 60KWh supercharging, the 55KW battery of the Model 3 can charge about as fast as the premium models that enjoy charging at twice that rate right now. Tesla needs to distinguish the premium from the low end Model 3.
     
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  6. EinSV

    EinSV Active Member

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    The title should be changed to include:[BASELESS SPECULATION].

    This is an absurd thread.
     
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  7. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    The title of the thread is a question, not a statement.

    If you ignore the question and disagree with statement fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
     
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  8. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Tesla wants to charge by kWh or energy that you take.

    However, some locations do not allow Tesla to do so unless it is an approved Public Utility company.

    So to circumvent that prohibition, Tesla would charge you by the minute not by the energy.

    Your battery would charge fastest at 120 kW charging rate.

    So, 1 minute at 120 kW charging rate will take much more energy than 1 minute at 60 kW charging rate.

    That is why there are 2 tiers: above 60 kW and below 60 kW.

    Above 60 kW rate is twice as expensive as below 60 kW rate.

    Below 60 kW rate is twice as less expensive as above 60 kW rate.

    It is not about which car S, X or ≡ that you have.

    It' about charging rate.
     
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  9. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    Why not have 5 tiers then?
     
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  10. strykeroz

    strykeroz Member

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    If M3 only had slow charging we'll only be cluttering up superchargers more than the growth of numbers alone would cause. I can't see that as an outcome anyone wants.
     
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  11. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    I'm not sure Tesla are applying that logic though.
    Their goal is to reduce supercharger loading and queues of cars not increase them.
    Limiting the Model ☰ to half the capability of the supercharger just means the car sits there taking the spot for longer.
    There is also no cost benefit to reducing supercharger speed.

    edit - @strykeroz beat me to it :)
     
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  12. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Too confusing/complicated.
     
  13. azred

    azred Member

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    Isn't it true that larger batteries charge faster? If so, in those states like Arizona with per minute fees (tiers 1 and 2), the more expensive cars will get significantly cheaper "fills" per amount of electricity consumed than the less expensive cars, right? If so, that may be something Tesla will want to look at. That observation wouldn't apply in a state like CA where fee is based on consumption, not time.
     
  14. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Yes. 1 or 5 tiers would work but Tesla chooses to compromise and simplify it down to 2.
     
  15. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Very true!

    100 kWh would take more energy at the first minute than a 60 kWh pack can.

    To bill owners by minute is not ideal but it is a best way to circumvent the law.

    If you want fairness, we got to petition to change the law to pay by energy that we take, not by minutes!
     
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  16. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    A 100kW battery at a 90kWh supercharger will have a slower charge than a 55kW battery at a 60kWh tier 1 limited supercharger.
     
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  17. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #17 Tam, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    If you have 2 separate superchargers that can deliver at a maximum rate of 60 kW each and you have 2 empty battery packs: 100 kWh and 55 kWh,

    at the initial minute, the 100 kWh pack would absorb more energy than the 55 kWh pack would.

    Billing by minutes is not fair but we have to operate under the law and not to compete against utility companies.

    Otherwise, owners need to move to CA because CA bills by energy, not by minute.
     
  18. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    True. But a 55 kWh battery charging at a 120 kW supercharger or 200 kW supercharger charges faster than a 55 kWh pack at a 60 kW supercharger.

    There is zero percent chance your interpretation is correct.
     
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  19. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    I think you're missing the point of when the two tiers are in effect.
    First - the tiers only exist for the per minute states
    Because you will get a different charge rate if two cars are plugged into the same pair of SC's they need to bill you less.
    I don't think its any more complex than that.

    edit
    Just went back to confirm - the Tier 1/2 only exist for "per minute" states. There is only a single tier when charging per kW
    Therefore - no special, low speed SC for Model ☰ only
     
  20. azred

    azred Member

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    I think you may be missing the point that larger battery cars consume energy faster than small battery cars when supercharging such that they will get cheaper charges in "per minute" states -- and there are lots of per minute states.
     

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