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Model 3 to start at 60kWh
- Thread starter billchase2
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Elon also said the Model 3 would get 200 miles in the real world. The Bolt does not have as good aerodynamics, but it only gets 190 miles at 70mph (with AC on). It has a battery that is larger than 60kWh.
So I would not assume that this necessarily had anything to do with the Bolt. It may simply be trying to meet those requirements.
So I would not assume that this necessarily had anything to do with the Bolt. It may simply be trying to meet those requirements.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The Bolt has ~ 165 - 170 Newtons (~ 5.2 kW) more Aero friction than the Model 3 at 70 mph.
That works out to over 35% less range in the Bolt at that speed, so Tesla would not have to bump up battery capacity to meet their stated goals.
Something is not adding up
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jmanning
Member
Just weeks away from really seeing the Model 3 in all it's beauty and details...We have a 70D and being smaller, weighing less, having batteries having more capacity = more range. 240 full charge for 70D...SO 75 kwh battery for 3 should be at least 260 me thinks...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I tried previously playing with efficiency models to predict range. Ended up poorly (esp. with regard to Bolt). Not as easy to model as expected.
Also, rolling resistance still matters at highway speeds. The Bolt has narrower 215 LRR tires and smaller wheels (17 inch vs 18 inch) and is likely going to be lighter. That's going to help it.
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timk225
Active Member
Check my old posts. I told you all MONTHS ago that the 3 would have a 60 base battery.
I toldja, I toldja, I toldja!!!
I toldja, I toldja, I toldja!!!
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's a huge buffer at 8kWh. Even the larger packs today only have a 4kWh buffer. I find that fairly unlikely. I predicted 55kWh a while back, but I'll still be happy to eat crow (more battery is a good thing).
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
2 kWh buffer, 6 kWh option to pay for increased range.
I've never bought into the 'anti-sell' meme, but that doesn't mean that Tesla can outfit a Model 3 base trim with range that matches the base Model S with impunity. And in fact the published 215 mile range tells us that Tesla is going to avoid that pitfall. A 60 kWh pack would easily beat 215 miles so we have reached a contradiction.
My WAG (aka "prediction"):
215 mile range base
25 miles extra software unlocked range option for $1500
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timk225
Active Member
You've got to remember that the 3 will be bought by less technical people, so if that 52 kw number is true, perhaps Tesla feels the need to put bigger 4 Kw buffers at the top and bottom of the pack capacity to protect it from ignoramuses who haven't fully done their electric car research. They will blithely charge it to 100% and run it empty over and over.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Well for the "ignoramuses" they are likely going to keep it at the default ~90% charge setting and that takes ~6kWh off the top, so I don't think they need a further buffer on the top. The lost utility is a lot worse than that value.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
There has been plenty of napkin math done on here by people smarter than me that would suggest 4mi/kWh isn't too far fetched. 2170 cells, lighter weight, better drag coefficient......
The P90D gets ~3.26 mi/kWh.... So not outside the realm of possibility.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It says "215+ miles" not 215. Tesla had from the start said 215 miles EPA is minimum, not that it will have "around" that much range. Elon also separately said that 200 miles "real world" is the minimum.
I don't really think the Model S matters that much. 215+ when they announced it was already more than the base S 60kWh at the time with 210. Perhaps the base Model 3 will be artificially kept under the 249 of the current base 75kWh, but they certainly don't need to lob off 6kWh of capacity to do it.
Its a 40 mile jump for the 90D to 100D MS, so actually 5kWh should be worth 25 miles on the M3
Tesla will sell way to many Model 3 to be able to ship more batteries then the customer pays for, the extra cost for that when you sell hundreds of thousands will be huge.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Attachments
Are you sure about that, in this article form 2016 it only stands 215 miles.
Reliving Model 3 Mania: Buying a Tesla I've Never Seen
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That page never changed the range number. It always just said "215 miles" You can check the wayback machine.
I'm referring to the announcement, where it was mentioned the number is an "at least" number.
Tesla Model 3 Arrives: 215 Miles Of Range, $35,000 - Full Details
They repeated that "at least" in the April "anti-selling" blog post:
"Model 3 is smaller, simpler, and will come with far fewer options than Model S, but it makes driving feel effortless and offers a good range of at least 215 miles for our starting model."
Model S or Model 3
Also on the Model S vs Model 3 comparison sheet, it says "215+ Miles Range".
Compare Model S and Model 3 | Tesla
Said that also on the leaked version.
Tesla Model 3 vs Model S comparison slides
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Who makes the final determination of the range of certain batteries and configurations?
On the comparison page it says for the S
249-335 Miles Range (EPA)
If it is the EPA, there's a good explanation why the Model 3 still shows 215+, and it's not because Elon is trying to anti-sell the 3, it's because they haven't submitted it the EPA to get an exact figure yet.
On the comparison page it says for the S
249-335 Miles Range (EPA)
If it is the EPA, there's a good explanation why the Model 3 still shows 215+, and it's not because Elon is trying to anti-sell the 3, it's because they haven't submitted it the EPA to get an exact figure yet.
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