Model 3 Towing Hitch? (out of MA)

[mongo]

You don't get a NHTSA VSS of 0,38 by having a flimsy frame. Period. End of story.

You also don't get it from building a solid steel box.

You keep missing the point, so often that it's starting to seem deliberate now: there are no "unique loads of a hitch" that are more intense than the loads the frame will experience in a severe collision. On any axis. The forces exerted on a hitch are laughably small by comparison. On all axes.

And you keep missing my point. A hitch is a lever. If the cross beam was not built for that bending moment, it will deform.

What the bolts are attaching to" is a UHSS safety cell on a vehicle with by far the lowest combined probability of injury that the NHTSA has ever given out. They're the attachment of a critical crush structure to the safety cell.

That has no bearing on a torsional force.

The nothing, nothing, nothing and nothing - as extensively covered elsewhere. They literally could do nothing more than flag the vehicles as tow rated, buy Eco Hitches and converter-based wiring connectors, and use part of the funds from sales to pay for their installation at the destination (even from third party shops). They certainly can do more than that, but at a bare minimum, the only thing we need from Tesla is simply to give the vehicles a non-zero tow rating.

Only if it was built to have the vertical and torsion loads.

Yeah, the last thing we need right now is an American (aka, someone from a country where most people don't give a rat's arse about towing) lecturing Europeans about what they do and don't need.

No need to stereotype, I tow and haul. Thus waiting for the pickup... I get that you would like to haul, I hope Tesla made the 3 easily capable of such a thing, but I also understand why they would not have (time, money). The add one parts may need to be a subframe or backer plate for all we know.

Towing loads are...
Not. Remotely. Comparable.
... to crash forces. They're completely irrelevant to the structure they're bolted to. Your argument is akin to arguing that a person is going to make the wall of their house collapse because they hung a painting on it.

No they aren't, so why do you keep taking about crash/ impact instead of torque (my entire point)? Hanging a picture is an in plane load, exactly what walls are built to handle. Hanging a 3 foot deep plant hanger on a wall and then putting a large plant on it is not what a wall is built for. A wood framed wall will likely hold, but a light gauge metal stud wall may not...

Your link does not state what you claim. The problem people in the thread were encountering was the use of cabin 12V sources, which are on wires of limited gauge and virtual-fused. Model 3's DC/DC converter is 2,5kW. Even the 12V socket in the cabin can give 150W, well more than even the most powerful brake light / turn signal kit you could possibly put on a trailer.

Try post 153
Dashcam Install Help

or this very short thread:
BlackVue - Model 3 - 12 V Battery Direct Hook up - Service Center Error.

or if you prefer reddit:
TMC user documents how to wire dashcam battery to constantly power in a Model 3 - updated : teslamotors

I would expect Tesla to have a vehicle network controlled trailer lighting adapter as part of any future kit.

 

[DurandalAI]

Landing spot for OT debate from Market Action per @AudubonB's proper request. (please update title)

With help from @MP3Mike who read the manual

View attachment 364690

This whole discussion is why I plan on keeping my Leaf as a towing vehicle until there is a Tesla approved method of towing. If it means I keep my Leaf until 2020 and the Model Y is available, then that's what it will take. (I still plan on taking delivery on a Model 3 once the standard range battery is available, however.)

 

[mongo]

This whole discussion is why I plan on keeping my Leaf as a towing vehicle until there is a Tesla approved method of towing. If it means I keep my Leaf until 2020 and the Model Y is available, then that's what it will take. (I still plan on taking delivery on a Model 3 once the standard range battery is available, however.)

Nice plan. Leaf is only unsanctioned towing, right?

 

[DurandalAI]

Nice plan. Leaf is only unsanctioned towing, right?

Oh, yes correct. I'm in the US, however. It is long past warranty, which is my main concern. I'm not about to put a hitch on a $49,000 car that will invalidate the warranty.

 

[bhtooefr]

One thing to note re: trailer electrical loads is that many Europeans like to tow campers that have their own 12 volt batteries that charge off of the vehicle while driving, and there may be some constant load from a 12 volt refrigerator (IIRC the compressor refrigerators pull about 40 watts steady-state, the adsorption 3-way refrigerators are more like 150-200 watts steady state) - load that the system should be able to take pretty easily, if it's aware of it.

 

[Lessmog]

Then they should get a car that fits their needs or deal with the compromise, not complain that Tesla didn't give them exactly what they wanted. Or complain that Tesla should have taken the extra time, effort, money, and trade offs to include a hitch (or hitch support structure) and hitch light control electronics originally, or say Tesla is being mean.

Thanks, Mongo -- I guess. You just unsold my own Model 3 in waiting so I can maybe get 25 TSLA for the deposit return. Tesla doesn't really need the money any more, right?

 

[Lessmog]

With help from @MP3Mike who read the manual

And here you just proved @KarenRei 's point, that what we are waiting for is mainly some company intertia to release such approval. Usual timing applies, probably.

 

[mongo]

Thanks, Mongo -- I guess. You just unsold my own Model 3 in waiting so I can maybe get 25 TSLA for the deposit return. Tesla doesn't really need the money any more, right?

Hey, we wanted an X, but it doesn't fit our needs (or my body), so I'm going Tesla-less until the pickup. Should I instead rail against their choice of head rest design? I hate that our SUV has no fun functions in the center stack.

And here you just proved @KarenRei 's point, that what we are waiting for is mainly some company intertia to release such approval. Usual timing applies, probably.

Unless the parts include a subframe or backer plate for the hitch receiver. Saying it can cause damage implies (but does not prove) the current structure is not adequate.

 

[Lessmog]

Hey, we wanted an X, but it doesn't fit our needs (or my body), so I'm going Tesla-less until the pickup. Should I instead rail against their choice of head rest design? I hate that our SUV has no fun functions in the center stack.

Sure, go buy whatever you want and need. (3rd party seat?) But please stay out of my wishes, OK?

Unless the parts include a subframe or backer plate for the hitch receiver. Saying it can cause damage implies (but does not prove) the current structure is not adequate.

Agree, the wording of the warning part is VERY opaque -- but at least to me it does imply it would be possible if not trivial for Tesla to approve the option of a tow hook, whether their own or third party part; if necessary with caveats for modifications as needed. For example, the power drain monitoring of low-voltage battery should be a cinch to modify in software to allow for tow mode? IIRC from Tesla Björn, MX for example disables the back-up sensors (only) when towing.

Maybe I dreamt it, but wasn't there a tweeted video clip of some vicious torque testing pre release of P3? That on its own implies (to me, a layman) that the chassis has been extremely thoroughly stress tested mechanically.

Worst case, I might have to resort to borrowing my neighbor's VW diesel flatbed pickup truck once in a while. Might even opt to sell it to me one day ... ... and it has a tow hook!

 

[mongo]

Agree, the wording of the warning part is VERY opaque -- but at least to me it does imply it would be possible if not trivial for Tesla to approve the option of a tow hook, whether their own or third party part; if necessary with caveats for modifications as needed. For example, the power drain monitoring of low-voltage battery should be a cinch to modify in software to allow for tow mode? IIRC from Tesla Björn, MX for example disables the back-up sensors (only) when towing.

Maybe I dreamt it, but wasn't there a tweeted video clip of some vicious torque testing pre release of P3? That on its own implies (to me, a layman) that the chassis has been extremely thoroughly stress tested mechanically.

Worst case, I might have to resort to borrowing my neighbor's VW diesel flatbed pickup truck once in a while. Might even opt to sell it to me one day ... ... and it has a tow hook!

Nothing is trivial in the automotive world...

Vicious torque: Elon Musk on Twitter

But again, designed for motor torque does not mean designed for hitch torque. I think they'll come out with a towing package, but it may be an interesting looking piece(s) of metal.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Imagine that Tesla will not offer a tow package until they bring out air suspension for the Model 3.

This may also be why they made air suspension manditory for the Model X.

 

[bhtooefr]

Also worth noting that, at least in ICE vehicles, towing prohibitions are often about cooling and transmission longevity as much as they're about unibody strength, crash safety, suspension, and braking.

(Given that the Model 3 can do fine on track duty, I doubt that's the hold-up, and I would be unsurprised if braking is the bigger concern, but I know of cases like the Prius, where the unibody could handle towing all along (it was based on the Corolla, which was rated to do it in some parts of the world), but the transmission (read: electric motors) cooling was inadequate for Toyota's warranty desires until Gen 4 (and then only for European 80 km/h towing speeds).)

 

[dhrivnak]

I added a hitch to my Model 3. In doing so I had to somewhat disassemble the rear of the car. I was very impressed with how the rear is very overbuilt in my opinion. Very strong, rigid and safe. FAR more rigid than my Chevy Volt. A Volt which has safely managed towing a 2000 lb camper over 18,000 miles and over MANY mountain passes in the Rockies. The Model 3 will be MUCH better than the Volt for towing. The weak link is the nearly 50% cut in range and the rarity of charging options in National Forests and Parks.

 

[Lessmog]

I added a hitch to my Model 3. In doing so I had to somewhat disassemble the rear of the car. I was very impressed with how the rear is very overbuilt in my opinion. Very strong, rigid and safe. FAR more rigid than my Chevy Volt. A Volt which has safely managed towing a 2000 lb camper over 18,000 miles and over MANY mountain passes in the Rockies. The Model 3 will be MUCH better than the Volt for towing. The weak link is the nearly 50% cut in range and the rarity of charging options in National Forests and Parks.

Yet further support that basically all that's needed is the legal stamp of approval -- apparently not necessary in US but it really is over here in Europe! Thanks for the info. (What make did you choose?)

 

[dhrivnak]

Yet further support that basically all that's needed is the legal stamp of approval -- apparently not necessary in US but it really is over here in Europe! Thanks for the info. (What make did you choose?)

I have the ecohitch. And I added a wiring harness, an inductive one from torkliftcentral.

 

[Zippy114]

I have the ecohitch. And I added a wiring harness, an inductive one from torkliftcentral.

Hello dhrivnak - where did you find +12v for the trailer lights? There is an etrailer YouTube video that routes a wire along the outside / underside of the vehicle - looks hard. Did you find another option?

 

[dhrivnak]

Hello dhrivnak - where did you find +12v for the trailer lights? There is an etrailer YouTube video that routes a wire along the outside / underside of the vehicle - looks hard. Did you find another option?

Not really I pulled straight from the 12V battery in the Frunk and ran between the bottom panels. Frankly that was the hardest part which really was not too bad.