Model 3 Track Day: Laguna Seca

[Ulmo]

Today I learned that I had somehow not realized or blocked out that there's a race track near where I live that I could use if I wanted. But, I don't have my Mercedes or Tesla any more, so no point.

 

[Victor3]

@mattcrowley, I took your data and put this vis together. (Click for full size.) Fantastic consistency over 9 laps. Any interesting spots you'd like to describe?

 

[Victor3]

Here's another vis as you're entering into the 1st lap. (Click for full size.)

 

[Victor3]

Lap 2...hitting stride. (Click for full image.)

 

[loungin]

Great question. I don't know. I hadn't looked into it much, but was interested in finding out more ...just didn't get to it. It would be good to know what our options are on the Model 3 for traction control settings or mods.

First off this is so awesome! Your lines looks pretty good too. I don’t think model 3 should be faster on track than an e36 M3 and I see you passing several of them who were all over the place (I will probably be one of those e36s all over the place in about a month).

Even though it’s “sporty” I don’t get the feeling the Model 3 was designed to be a track car. More like economy car. Try tracking a stock Mazda 3 this hard and see how well the brakes hold up.

Also stability control eats brakes as well, especially rears. I wonder how much that came into play.

It’s as heavy as an E90 M3. Are the Model 3 brakes anywhere near as big? I’d imagine it was designed with regen in mind and not Laguna Seca which is a brake heavy track.

Anyway looks like a perfect time for you to get some brake mods and racing fluid. =)

Lol, there needs to be a Model 3 cup racing series with proper suspension, brake setups, and stability control tuning. It’s a shame we can’t disable the stability control and do some slides with the rwd platform.

How is the steering feel on track? I’ve heard the ratio is pretty quick. Like video game controller quick, 1.5 turns each way?. How is the feedback at the limit? GT4 is probably an unfair comparison, but can you give us a report with that as point of reference?

Can you steer with the throttle?

Thanks again for the video.

 

[arnis]

Couldn't disagree with you more. No volume production cars are set up for hot laps at Laguna Seca.

Read next quote:

I've been at lagune seca 4 times with my BMW M235i and did about 80 laps with a best time of 1:52.

This is a production car. Sporty version, true. But brake pads used on that vehicle are also used on 1.5 liter diesel BMW. Part number 34216876422 for front.

from DOT3/4 fluid to Motul DOT5.1

DOT 3, 4, 5.1 are all standards. 30 degree difference between 4 and 5.1. If one reads "Use DOT4 fluid only" then one should use that. Even though it can be mixed. Why. Brake fluid did not overheat.

No such thing as performance brake fluid?!? Funniest thing I heard all day. Not sure where to even start with that. Take a family car or a bike to a track day and let me know how it all works out.

Let's continue your funny day. Bring examples of hi-performance braking fluids with manufacturer promises and explain why that one is better at Laguna.

There are different boiling points for different rated brake fluids.

And? We got wasted pads, not wasted fluid.

Considering a car sporty is nothing at all like considering a car track prepped.

...what?

Google "virtual sensor" if you want to know more. Or you rather push "disagree" button if you can't keep up?

And now you see what happens when those parameters are exceeded.

I see that user was not warned about imminent brake failure. These lights for example are there for production vehicles like BMW 3-series:

These lights light up BEFORE failure.

Everybody else here seems to know.

I don't think so:
Disagree x 9
Daniel in SDmattcrowleyDrivesolotomc603CarnookAWDtslaSmartElectricFoxtrotterUlmo
Funny x 2
McRatLCR1

Some think that European guy have never heard of a track. World's most known track is on my continent, Nürburgring
Drivers often go there with their "OEM" vehicle with "OEM" brake fluid and usually with "OEM" brake pads.
We can go deep-dive into track specifics, etc. But then we should also talk about how cold was that day in Laguna.
Just an example of regular, non-performance BMW:

There are hundreds and hundreds of videos to watch. Random brake failure without warning is not expected. I wouldn't like to hear anybody, especially fans, excusing that. It is Model 3, not Corolla.
Like I said, squeal and warning light (fluid low) as a minimum for warning. Better pads or virtual sensor would be enough for "safe vehicle".

 

[malcolm]

Teslarati article:

Tesla Model 3 performance put to the test on Laguna Seca raceway

 

[diamond.g]

Thanks!

Obviously you know how bad the track conditions were yesterday. At least three cars destroyed into the walls. The turn 3 with a river running through it. It was not a day to push it...especially on the first session of the day at 40°F and a car not run before. Silly fun though!

At least I didn't blow sound. Two friends of mine blew sound three times each and were asked to leave just after lunch. Blowing sound was all too common yesterday.

Uh, for those of us who don't track cars (and failed on Google search) what is blow sound?

 

[LCR1]

Thank you @tomc603 didnt feel like typin all that out on my phone last night.

 

[GTIceman]

This was great to see and might push me toward getting my 3 when the P comes out. I sold my M3 track car and now use my 335, but it looks like the 3 has promise. Sad to see the pads fail after so few laps. Range is promising as is the lack of overheating. I would love to get my P90DL on track just for a lap.

 

[LCR1]

Yea look at the cars manufactures are bragging about running around the Ring, mustang GT350R, corvette, camaros, Porsche, etc. all of these cars are designed for performance first and most come with carbon ceramic disks and pads. When Honda bragged about beating the Ford Focus, that Honda was track preped and didn't even use the factory tires. You're naive if you think manufactures aren't going to do basic track prepping for "sporty" cars before taking them on the track. So I'm glad you put OEM in quotes when referencing them.

And as far a performance brake fluid heres the requirements for DOT brake fluid.

So there's a 25c/ 45f degree difference (not 30 as you claim) and yes DOT 3,4 and 5.1 are interchangeable but there are still performance types.

Motul RBF 660 (dot4) which is popular around the paddocks I race has a boiling point of 594* that's 148 degrees higher then the specification calls for.

Stoptech STR fluid had a booiling temp of 622 degrees, 176 degrees above standard

Torque RT 700 has a boiling point of
683 degrees, that's a 237 degree difference. You can boil water with that temperature delta of two fluids meeting the same specification. So yes there are such things as performance brake fluid.

Keep googling stuff and you might actually learn something. However don't just copy and paste the first blog post you see. It's making you look (insert word choice)

Also why do you have a picture of the coolant light, transmission light, catalytic converter light and brake light from a BMW/ Mini? None of which are applicable to the situation and don't appear on the tesla.

Read next quote:

This is a production car. Sporty version, true. But brake pads used on that vehicle are also used on 1.5 liter diesel BMW. Part number 34216876422 for front.


DOT 3, 4, 5.1 are all standards. 30 degree difference between 4 and 5.1. If one reads "Use DOT4 fluid only" then one should use that. Even though it can be mixed. Why. Brake fluid did not overheat.


Let's continue your funny day. Bring examples of hi-performance braking fluids with manufacturer promises and explain why that one is better at Laguna.

And? We got wasted pads, not wasted fluid.



Google "virtual sensor" if you want to know more. Or you rather push "disagree" button if you can't keep up?

I see that user was not warned about imminent brake failure. These lights for example are there for production vehicles like BMW 3-series:

These lights light up BEFORE failure.



I don't think so:
Disagree x 9
Daniel in SDmattcrowleyDrivesolotomc603CarnookAWDtslaSmartElectricFoxtrotterUlmo
Funny x 2
McRatLCR1

Some think that European guy have never heard of a track. World's most known track is on my continent, Nürburgring
Drivers often go there with their "OEM" vehicle with "OEM" brake fluid and usually with "OEM" brake pads.
We can go deep-dive into track specifics, etc. But then we should also talk about how cold was that day in Laguna.
Just an example of regular, non-performance BMW:

There are hundreds and hundreds of videos to watch. Random brake failure without warning is not expected. I wouldn't like to hear anybody, especially fans, excusing that. It is Model 3, not Corolla.
Like I said, squeal and warning light (fluid low) as a minimum for warning. Better pads or virtual sensor would be enough for "safe vehicle".

 

[jerjozwik]

Uh, for those of us who don't track cars (and failed on Google search) what is blow sound?

thanks to the lovely community of rich people that now surround the hills of laguna seca, there is a little house after turn 5 that monitors sound emissions of exhaust. depending on weather conditions the track will have a sound limit in decibels. if you go over the limit you will be flagged and told to come in off the track. i think it was installed some time ago after the community tried to shut down laguna seca.

 

[OppositeLock]

Read next quote:
Let's continue your funny day. Bring examples of hi-performance braking fluids with manufacturer promises and explain why that one is better at Laguna.

And? We got wasted pads, not wasted fluid.

So, I've been tracking for many years, and you couldn't be more wrong about fluid.

To give you examples of high temperature fluids - Motul RBF 600 or RBF 660, or ATE race fluid.

These fluids are DOT4, since that's what my car requires, but have boiling points significantly higher than the DOT4 specification. They have downsides as well, they are more hygroscopic, so you have to change them more frequently than a standard fluid, because they actually have a lower boiling point after a few months.

They are better at Laguna than stock fluid because boiled fluid makes you lose your brakes in the hardest braking zones, coming down the hill towards turn 2 for example (that's the hairpin).

Why preach about something that you have no idea about?

 

[mongo]

Uh, for those of us who don't track cars (and failed on Google search) what is blow sound?

I wondered too. Beside being loud (blowing the sound limit), it may also be tied to turbocharged vehicles with large dump/ blow off valves. When going from high power to low (wide open throttle to closed), the spooled up turbo dumps out this valve instead of over pressuring the intake.

Reference

 

[diamond.g]

thanks to the lovely community of rich people that now surround the hills of laguna seca, there is a little house after turn 5 that monitors sound emissions of exhaust. depending on weather conditions the track will have a sound limit in decibels. if you go over the limit you will be flagged and told to come in off the track. i think it was installed some time ago after the community tried to shut down laguna seca.

Interesting. When the limit is present do folks just not use full throttle?

 

[LCR1]

Uh, for those of us who don't track cars (and failed on Google search) what is blow sound?

I wondered too. Beside being loud (blowing the sound limit), it may also be tied to turbocharged vehicles with large dump/ blow off valves. When going from high power to low (wide open throttle to closed), the spooled up turbo dumps out this valve instead of over pressuring the intake.

Reference

the track at Leaguna Seca has a sound restriction of 92db imposed by the county and there are only 30 days of the year they allow for exemptions. They can also only host 5 major racing events, which take up most of those 30 days. There's a sound booth on the track the measures noise as you go by and if you "blow sound" or exceed the limit you get a warning, do it again and you're asked to leave. There is an entire sub culture devoted on ways to get around blowing sound at the track.

 

[LCR1]

Interesting. When the limit is present do folks just not use full throttle?

That's the best way around it is to not go WFO between T5-6, however I've hear of them going to other parts of the track to catch known violators.

Some facts about the Sound Booth at Laguna Seca

 

[loungin]

I don’t think it’s worth the time or energy to debate someone who is exhibiting typical trolling behavior on this thread although I do appreciate the knowledge you are putting out. It’s nice to see track rats on a Tesla forum. =)

 

[rw99]

the track at Leaguna Seca has a sound restriction of 92db imposed by the county and there are only 30 days of the year they allow for exemptions. They can also only host 5 major racing events, which take up most of those 30 days. There's a sound booth on the track the measures noise as you go by and if you "blow sound" or exceed the limit you get a warning, do it again and you're asked to leave. There is an entire sub culture devoted on ways to get around blowing sound at the track.

In the past, a couple of us running Vipers delivered morning refreshments to the sound booth and chatted for a bit. Not kidding.

Serious 911 guys will tack on an exhaust deflection pipe. They can be mild to OMG in design.
View media item 118048
Most commonly, short-shifting the hill where the sound booth resides (or simply lifting) provides some leeway.

The real solution (for me, anyway) is being hypervigilant for those very few high dB days, and signing up immediately with whoever's organizing the track day.


Rich

PS Matt, we're all really sorry for the Seca thread hijack. But you know how it is with track guys

 

[mkspeedr]

Actually Laguna Seca is messed up. They have both 92 and 90db days - 2 db lower than a stock motorcycle is allowed. So you can buy a motorcycle and race around the city streets with 92 per DOT but get kicked off the race track at Laguna Seca.

The sound meter sucks. To blow sound - you record over 90 or 92db. The black flag you. It sucks because sometimes the noise is the airbox, sometimes it is the exhaust. It is all about the frequency of the sound. A stock small 600cc in line four might be too loud but a 1299cc Ducati with slip on exhausts might pass (the Ducati is way louder than the Yamaha - trust me).

Sometimes they have a roving sound meter - those days suck because you cannot short shift or roll off as you pass the sound booth. Lots of guys build or buy db killers - baffles that go over the exhaust to help reduce the noise or redirect it like the picture of the Porsche.