M3 has a more balanced handling feel. It’s significantly down on power compared to a Performance 3 though so it can’t get the times the Performance 3 can get.
Model 3 Track Mode V2...RIP BMW M3
- Thread starter lynnpt2001
- Start date
Just like "speed" covers many regimes (low speed acceleration vs top end), handling is more nuanced than just "turns well". Could mean stability, roadholding, responsiveness, balance, etc.
Short tracks favors rapid low end accel, and doesnt demand high load braking or high speeds.
Does that compute?
Daniel in SD
Well-Known Member
AWD helps acceleration out of tight corners. Also, I'm not sure I ever said the M3 has better handling (it's also a bit of a pig!).
Daniel in SD
Well-Known Member
M3 has better power to weight than a Model 3, that's why it has a higher trap speed in the 1/4 mile. The Model 3 is quicker to 60mph due to AWD and not having to spend time shifting. The Model 3 loses power at high speeds, the M3 doesn't.
I just checked the Nurburgring lap times wiki
first M3 (GTS coupe E92,2011) 7:48
first model 3 (performance, duh) 9:00
Oh and the 9:00 are on a shorter track. (19,100 m versus 20,600 m)
So for now. meh...
(Oh and I like that where it counts people are careful and do not mix M3 with M3
)
first M3 (GTS coupe E92,2011) 7:48
first model 3 (performance, duh) 9:00
Oh and the 9:00 are on a shorter track. (19,100 m versus 20,600 m)
So for now. meh...
(Oh and I like that where it counts people are careful and do not mix M3 with M3
)The M3 competition has 444hp with 3600lb car at the crank. A Model 3 is pushing 500hp (with the 2 updates) with significantly less powertrain loss. Assuming the M3 has 400hp at the wheels, you are pushing 9lbs per horsepower vs. 8lbs per horsepower for the Model 3 with almost no loss comparatively at the wheels. On a short track, the Model 3 does really well but anything that is longer, the M3 will be much better. I also agree that the M3 feels more balanced.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I just checked the Nurburgring lap times wiki
first M3 (GTS coupe E92,2011) 7:48
first model 3 (performance, duh) 9:00
Oh and the 9:00 are on a shorter track. (19,100 m versus 20,600 m)
So for now. meh...
(Oh and I like that where it counts people are careful and do not mix M3 with M3
FWIW- Tesla Model 3 Performance laptimes, specs, performance data - FastestLaps.com
this lists an 8:00:01 for M3P-- dunno their source though.
Dolemite
is my name
Might also be worthwhile mentioning that a P3D is more like a Civic Si vs. an M3 which is a completely different animal than a regular 3 Series. The Model 3 doesn't even have adjustable camber from the factory. Hopefully someday Tesla spins up a proper skunkworks division that cranks out some seriously scary stuff.
MagnusMako
Member
With a 100 kWh model 3 seemingly coming, and possibly with Ludicrous and hopefully other track oriented goodies, I could easily see a new higher end P3D version becoming a track monster.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The 9 minute time was with traffic and not really a serious run. I'm very confident we will be seeing a legit lap at the Ring in the near future and it will be much better than that.
Daniel in SD
Well-Known Member
At the same high state of charge, you lose ~100hp in the upper speeds which then equalizes with the M3 in terms of horsepower. On a short track, the M3 is at a significant disadvantage due to this horsepower difference and that was my point. Most of the times posted have been on short tracks where the Tesla's horsepower advantage posts faster times.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Everyone needs to learn to do the Area Under The Curve dance.
MagnusMako
Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yes and said hacker has also pointed out Tesla often puts things in the code that never actually happen. Or in some cases do, but not for years after the code appears.
MagnusMako
Member
Yes I know. It's just an observation. It could mean nothing. But I'd like to be hopeful and think that it means something. With Tesla guaranteed a new battery technology with higher energy density, likely announced next month - I would say it's highly probable they could do a 100 kWh pack in the same form factor in the next iteration of the car.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They probably could- but it seems incredibly unlikely they'd put it in the lowest-margin, highest # sold, model they already can't build fast enough until they've already brought it to ever other higher end model first.
Plaid, and >400 miles on the S, both of which we know for a fact are coming this year, are gonna need more battery. That's where it'd go first. So S, then X and Roadster 2.0.
Then probably the semi and cybertruck to support the promised high ranges without taking as bad a towing hit as folks suggest they'd have to with current batteries.
So will they EVENTUALLY come to 3/Y? Sure, probably.
This year? Almost 100% no.
Even next year? Depends on quickly they can ramp production beyond all the other products it's more likely to go into first.
F80 M3 Makes a LOT more power than advertised and is probably making on the order of 485hp. Just browse around at stock dyno plots.
I love my P3D, but I would certainly rather track an M3 for the following reasons
1) a tuned F80 M3 makes WAY WAY more power than a P3D.
2) you can ride that powerband all day long thanks to the miracle of transmissions.
3) brakes brakes brakes.
4) Wrist shaker - fun is literally 100% of the fun
5) Adjustable suspension
6) 5 minutes at the gas pump
7) Corn Baby, CORN! 550WHP/550WTQ anyone? an E85 powered M3 is face melting.
8) because the 2020/2021 M3 will be available in AWD and make north of 500hp
9) Because the car is actually designed to be abused on a track.
10) Oh that sweet sweet noise.
I mean come on guys. You cant argue that the Model 3 is a track car. Yes you can upgrade its brakes and suspension and bushings and coax it into turning some hot laps. But you can drive an M3 off of the lot, straight to the track, and smash the *sugar* out of it until your blue in the face.
I LOVE my P3D. A track weapon from the factory it is not. If you want a tarted up econobox to take racing, get a Subaru STi.
I love my P3D, but I would certainly rather track an M3 for the following reasons
1) a tuned F80 M3 makes WAY WAY more power than a P3D.
2) you can ride that powerband all day long thanks to the miracle of transmissions.
3) brakes brakes brakes.
4) Wrist shaker - fun is literally 100% of the fun
5) Adjustable suspension
6) 5 minutes at the gas pump
7) Corn Baby, CORN! 550WHP/550WTQ anyone? an E85 powered M3 is face melting.
8) because the 2020/2021 M3 will be available in AWD and make north of 500hp
9) Because the car is actually designed to be abused on a track.
10) Oh that sweet sweet noise.
I mean come on guys. You cant argue that the Model 3 is a track car. Yes you can upgrade its brakes and suspension and bushings and coax it into turning some hot laps. But you can drive an M3 off of the lot, straight to the track, and smash the *sugar* out of it until your blue in the face.
I LOVE my P3D. A track weapon from the factory it is not. If you want a tarted up econobox to take racing, get a Subaru STi.
