TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Model 3 tries to engage autosteer when shifting into drive - unintended acceleration

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by eprosenx, Jun 12, 2019 at 9:20 PM.

  1. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    So I have been annoyed by a bug in my car for as long as I can remember. When I get into the car I generally immediately put my foot on the brake and put the car into drive. The trick is that when you put your foot on the brake it takes it a second to "boot up" (some error warning lights display momentarily) and during that time period if you move the drive stalk down it DOES NOT go into drive. That is annoying, so I immediately do it again and it successfully goes into drive. The issue is that on this second depression of the drive lever it not only puts it into drive, but it ALSO tries to engage autosteer. This errors out and displays the message "Autosteer temporarily unavailable".

    So now comes the issue: I think this caused unintended acceleration for me once when I was at my Aunt's house in their gravel driveway. I think (based on Tesla's analysis of the logs) that the car ended up in TACC mode and so the moment I gently touched the accelerator pedal, it tried to accelerate up to 18 miles per hour (the minimum TACC setting). I need to call Tesla back and discuss with them the possibility that this bug was the root cause (i.e. it simultaneously shifting into gear AND trying to engage some kind of TACC/Autopilot).

    I don't have an issue with it taking a second to "self test" the car as I put my foot on the brake to activate the vehicle, but I DO think it is a defect for it to try and engage TACC/Autopilot at the same time as it puts the car into drive. What I thought was just an annoying chime I have to listen to many mornings as I fire up the car may actually have resulted in unintended operation.

    Has anyone else experienced similar behavior? Just to prove I was not crazy I just went and took a video showing the car not shifting to Drive the first time I press down the stalk, but then the second time simultaneously shifting to drive and giving me the autosteer error. I have not been able to recreate the "it putting me into TACC mode" issue. That may be GPS location related or related to other vehicles around me (a car was parked in front of me when I had this unintended acceleration - luckily I slammed on the brake in time). Basically I may not be able to reproduce at home in my driveway...

    I will endeavor to report this to Tesla.
     
    • Informative x 3
  2. Dante

    Dante Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes, have had the annoying alarms about autosteer not available. I feel like at one point, the car would go into drive immediately (maybe before I paid for/got autosteer and had a non-TACC car?). Never had it actually engage/accellerate though. I generally have my foot on the break during this movement, so would at the worst just activate and instantly cancel. Glad I'm not the only one so inpatient that I want the car going immediately! hahahaha
     
    • Love x 1
  3. mpmeyer

    mpmeyer Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I have seen something similar in my car, I press down for Drive, without the brake pedal, then press the pedal and shift into drive again.

    I see “auto steer temporarily unavailable” message every once in a while.

    This is also a problem at carwashes I don’t want to press the brake just to shift into drive
     
  4. Incredulocious

    Incredulocious '11 LEAF → '13 RAV4EV → '18 Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    296
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Yup, me too. I see this all the time and for the same reason: I try to switch to drive mode too quickly after pressing on the brake and have to request it again about a second or so later. It’s bad programming that it takes this to mean two pulls on the drive selector for autopilot. The first pull should not count if it was rejected because it came too close to engaging the brake (Reminds me of a common programming error that bugs me where an app incorrectly chooses to immediately interpret a second click or tap *down* as a double-click action rather than waiting for the “up”/release – which of course won’t come in time for a true “double-click” if it was really a drag action being initiated.)
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Jrzapata

    Jrzapata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Texas
    Interesting. I usually get into the car pressing the brake pedal, this moves all from easy-entry to my profile. By the time the seat stops moving I’m buckled up door closed and ready to roll
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  6. smatthew

    smatthew Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    269
    Location:
    CA Bay Area
    Neither TACC nor Autosteer will activate under 18 miles an hour UNLESS it detects a car >5 feet in front of you. And TACC does not accelerate up to 18 miles an hour, it maintains spacing between you and the car in front of you.

    I'm sorry, but this is most likely a case of user error.
     
    • Like x 6
    • Informative x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  7. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    NC

    There was no need to slam on your brake if it was actually TACC accelerating the car.




    If there was no car in front of you TACC would not be available when stopped in a driveway (or anywhere)- which is what you've seen trying to duplicate this event without a car in front of you.


    If there was one, as in your original situation, TACC would engage, but not attempt to accelerate to any speed greater than the car in front of you. Since the car in front of you was stopped it wouldn't accelerate at all unless there was a larger gap between you than you had set in TACC settings, and even then it'd stop on its own when it closed that distance- no need to hit the brake.







    Typically I do what the guy above this post does- get in, press brake, put on seat belt, then put into drive- and never have an issue with that timing
     
    • Like x 2
  8. RKDauto

    RKDauto Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    22204
    From reading your post, it seems like the root problem is that your Tesla Model 3 is not responding to your initial click into drive (or reverse) because it is taking time to respond to the pulling of the stalk. The root cause sounds like it is taking time to recognize your phone key to authorize driving the car. Since you the car appears not to be responding your multiple pulls of the stalk is being interpreted as requests to put the car into TACC and then AutoPilot AutoSteer+ modes after the car eventually unlocks.

    I will pass on some advice I recommend after every single software update. Always delete your phone key and re-add the phone key after every single software update. Software updates frequently cause delays in recognizing both the phone key authority to open your car doors and also they often cause delays in having your phone authorize you to drive the car. Removing and re-adding the key after a software update has always fixed this sluggishness in recognizing the phone key for me.
     
    • Disagree x 2
  9. derotam

    derotam Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    Oak Hill, VA
    From reading your post, I see 4 separate items to comment on...related but separate.

    First. When you get into the car, press on the brake and try to put the car into drive it doesn't work because the car is still "booting up"
    -To this I say yes, I too find it annoying when I don't get the timing right also

    Second: After the first issue, you immediately try to put the car into drive again, and it then goes into drive
    - Great it is in drive now!

    Third: Because 1 and 2 stalk presses happen in rapid succession, the car tries to go into AP...fails to go into auto steer, but does go into TACC(because it perceives a "vehicle" in front to follow).
    - Ok so the car kind of mis-read the situation here but good news, your foot is still on the brake pedal, even though very shortly

    Forth: Because 3 above, you claim "the moment I gently touched the accelerator pedal, it tried to accelerate up to 18 miles per hour"
    - Technically no....First of all, that's not the way TACC works....it would have started to accelerate after a slight delay. Yes I agree that TACC in your scenario would have started to accelerate but have you used TACC in stop and go traffic? It doesn't accelerate very fast at all.

    So conclusion, yes I agree basically with your unintended acceleration claim, but I disagree with some of your thoughts on the technicalities of what and when the car accelerated. You basically compounded the acceleration issue when you pressed the accelerator and when you released off the accelerator the car kept going because it was in TACC...It wasn't going fast though so I think any perception of rapid acceleration(I know you didn't say "rapid" at all) would have been due to the surprise factor of the car accelerating on its own.
     
    • Like x 3
  10. ngogas

    ngogas Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,287
    Location:
    Utah
    By the time I get into the car it already boot and ready to drive. So I don’t experience this. How did you get into the car while the computer is still coming up? My car is locked so to unlock requires the computer to be alive.
     
  11. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    I think you are spot on here. I suspect the car did not really take off that fast, but *any* unintended acceleration was jarring especially in such close quarters. The car did spin out on the gravel (it was very loose gravel). TACC does not expect to be on gravel I suspect...

    Also, the vehicle in front of me was parked basically perpendicular to me but I was turning left to avoid it and so there may be some extremely difficult to reproduce situation wherein the car first detected the other vehicle as being directly in front of me (and so it let TACC engage), but then it changed its mind and realized that car was not in my path of travel and so it let TACC accelerate when I put my foot on the brake.

    To others comments, yes, if indeed this was TACC accelerating for me then it should have stopped before hitting another car but I sure as hell was not going to test that! (also, I had zero clue that the car had activated TACC)
     
  12. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Well, the main display is “booted” up, but watch the display carefully when putting your foot on the brake. Various idiot lights come on for about a second as it does some self test or something. This is what I am referring to. It is very brief.
     
  13. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    There was a car in front of me in relatively close proximity.

    Tesla is who told me TACC activated at 18 miles per hour as the set limit. I was not on a public road with a published speed limit, so that may have been why. They said this was the default.

    But yes, in retrospect, the car may not have hit anything if left alone, but I had no idea it was in TACC mode and I had no intention of being in TACC mode.
     
  14. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,908
    Location:
    Terre Haute, IN USA
    It used to happen to me on occasion. I would tap down on the stalk and thinking I am not in Drive, I would press down again, triggering what the car thinks is a double tap to engage AP, so I would accidentally get the "auto steer unavailable" warning. I've learned to be more careful. I gently press the stalk once and shift into D. I don't get the warning anymore. It's just a matter of not pressing down twice.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Glamisduner

    Glamisduner Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,797
    Location:
    Escondido, CA
    I get this all the time but it has never caused unintended acceleration.
     
    • Informative x 1
  16. dwalme

    dwalme Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Same here.
     
  17. Petrlol

    Petrlol Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ditto to everything. I get super annoyed when it doesn't recognize my first pull into drive, but then the 2nd pull it thinks "oh that was 2, better try to turn on autopilot".
     
    • Like x 2
  18. derotam

    derotam Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    Oak Hill, VA

    Last comment...I know you have a fast car and you are in a hurry and want to get in and get going...but just slow down a bit, haha. well actually, if you are in such a hurry to get in your car, put it in drive, and start moving, then why are you complaining....the car was helping you out! lol
     
    • Funny x 2
  19. DBeckwith

    DBeckwith Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2018
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    Wheaton
    I can see how this could happen. Good catch. Glad you reported it to Tesla.
     
  20. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,904
    Location:
    San Diego
    The autosteer unavailable due to laggy response happens all the time for me...or used to. It definitely was not always there so it appeared at some point.

    It always crossed my mind that “this seems potentially dangerous”...but nothing ever happened so did not think further other than being annoyed at the slowness of the vehicle response.

    I think your proposed scenario where TACC was engaged due to a car in front during the double pull, and then as you turned, it went to the set speed seems quite likely. For some reason I never would have thought of that scenario! Sounds like that is exactly what happened.

    If your car is still laggy it should be possible to reproduce it, eventually.

    The fix would be to have the car actually respond promptly to the first pull. Any car software problem where it essentially forces you to put the car in TACC inadvertently is at least mildly dangerous. I always do the second pull because I look down and it says the car is still in park. Then I pull again and it says “autosteer not available”. It’s not like I am sitting there repeatedly pulling on the stalk. Just twice. Once to go in drive, and once to go in drive again because it says the car is in park.

    I think those of us who are still experiencing this should just file bug reports...not clear it will result in any response from Tesla, but does not hurt to try.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Disagree x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC