Model 3 tries to engage autosteer when shifting into drive - unintended acceleration

[AltLogic]

A possibility:

You normally press harder on the brake pedal and engage Brake Hold before shifting into drive. You were parked downhill. You didn’t press the brake hard enough to engage Brake Hold. When the car went into drive the car rolled forward when you didn’t expect it to and you felt unintended acceleration.

 

[KenC]

My Easy Entry position, seat up, steering wheel up, take quite a bit of time to reset to my driving position. That time gives the car plenty of time to boot up, so I can't go into Drive, immediately. Maybe some of you who are trying to drive off quickly should try changing your Easy Entry position to just slow yourself down a moment, to give the car more time to boot.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My Easy Entry position, seat up, steering wheel up, take quite a bit of time to reset to my driving position. That time gives the car plenty of time to boot up, so I can't go into Drive, immediately.

When I was looking at this this morning, I thought this too (can't put car into drive when in Easy Entry). But the second time I tried it, I was able to enter drive even though the Easy Entry position had not moved yet.

Will take some fiddling around and experimentation to reproduce the exact required sequence - and it may be hard, because as with PIN-to-drive, sometimes the car is "laggier" and unresponsive to input for no apparent reason, and it varies depending on various unknown factors. I haven't studied it. All I can say is that it doesn't seem to be consistent.

 

[Eno Deb]

My Easy Entry position, seat up, steering wheel up, take quite a bit of time to reset to my driving position. That time gives the car plenty of time to boot up, so I can't go into Drive, immediately. Maybe some of you who are trying to drive off quickly should try changing your Easy Entry position to just slow yourself down a moment, to give the car more time to boot.

Personally I don't use Easy Entry (fortunately still flexible enough to get into the car without it ) and yes, I also often have this annoying error when I push down the stalk before the car is ready. If it is not possible to make the startup time shorter, perhaps it would help if there was a clear indication when exactly the car is ready after pressing the brake pedal, like a chime or something. I don't think pressing the brake earlier is a good idea since you shouldn't take the car out of Park before you're ready to go.

 

[dsvick]

Neither TACC nor Autosteer will activate under 18 miles an hour UNLESS it detects a car >5 feet in front of you.

That's not right at all. I engage both when in bumper to bumper traffic with cars much less than 5 feet in front of me.

The root cause sounds like it is taking time to recognize your phone key to authorize driving the car.

Did you even read his post? The cause is that the car is still booting up when he is trying to put it in drive. He's already in the car so it is certainly recognizing his phone (unless he used the key card).

I will pass on some advice I recommend after every single software update. Always delete your phone key and re-add the phone key after every single software update. Software updates frequently cause delays in recognizing both the phone key authority to open your car doors and also they often cause delays in having your phone authorize you to drive the car. Removing and re-adding the key after a software update has always fixed this sluggishness in recognizing the phone key for me.

That sounds tiresome. The only thing I've ever had to do is reboot my phone after updating the app on the phone. If you need to delete and re-add your phone each time then it sounds like you have other issues going on.

 

[lolder]

The OP posted in another thread about unintended acceleration that he also always tapped the accelerator pedal after shifting into drive. Why would he do that ever particularly when there were people and a vehicle in front of him?

 

[eprosenx]

The OP posted in another thread about unintended acceleration that he also always tapped the accelerator pedal after shifting into drive. Why would he do that ever particularly when there were people and a vehicle in front of him?

I may not have written things clearly in the other thread. I always put my foot on the brake any time I get into any vehicle (just a safety thing that is ingrained habit).

I think my comment about the accelerator pedal was that I gently press it to start going once I am ready to drive. I don’t just randomly push it for no reason. And I generally tap it lightly to release brake hold in my driveway and then let it roll forward out of the driveway. Otherwise if I am on flat land I gently depress it to drive (not a tap).

 

[Knightshade]

That's not right at all. I engage both when in bumper to bumper traffic with cars much less than 5 feet in front of me.

User manual says otherwise- maybe you're not estimating distance accurately? (that or the manual is lying, that's always possible too)

If a vehicle is detected ahead of you, you can use TrafficAware Cruise Control at any speed, even when stationary, provided Model 3 is at least 5 feet (150 cm) behind the detected vehicle.

 

[dsvick]

User manual says otherwise- maybe you're not estimating distance accurately? (that or the manual is lying, that's always possible too)

No, I know for sure I've been under five feet away and engaged it. Maybe my radar is off ...

 

[nvx1977]

I use easy entry, and I have noticed many times that if I don't wait for the whirring motors in the steering wheel and seat to finish, I can't put the car in drive. Which results in me doing a "double tap" on the stalk, triggering the same warning the OP reports. Plenty of others in this thread have confirmed that this is readily reproducible.

It is quite concerning to know that it might be possible to actually engage TACC while simply trying to put the car in drive. I'm definitely going to try to be more patient now.

I trigger the warning a different way as well: I park in a parking garage for work, and when I leave, I have to pay at a booth. Once I pay, I seem to frequently assume that I put the car in P, so I'll pull down on the stalk to put it in drive. But because I'm already in D, nothing happens. I might be used to expecting my easy entry whirring noises, so I will pull the stalk again. Then I get the warning about TACC unavailable. I've never gotten the habit at looking at the P N R D indicator on the screen. Maybe I should.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I did a little fiddling when I went to move my car from the Chargepoint. I was able to reproduce the behavior of a double pull being required, yet sometimes it will go to Drive when the Easy Entry has not finished its job.

I tried to get it to engage Autosteer/TACC, but it said Cruise was unavailable, even with a car in front (and showing up on the screen) - may be geofenced to some extent - or maybe some other requirement was not satisfied.

In any case, further experimentation needed to see if this is actually reproducible.

One thing I was thinking, though - normally you would have your foot on the brake when trying to engage Drive (it's required!). If your foot is on the brake, then it should not be possible to engage either TACC or Autosteer (they would be immediately canceled I assume).

So, it's a little mysterious how this could ever happen - unless you actually follow this sequence:

1) Get in car, hold brake.
2) Shift to Drive
3) Look down, see the car is still in Park, based on the screen indication and lack of parking brake removal (audio cue would be no parking brake release sound)
4) Release Brake (as you do this, the delayed shift to Drive occurs without further input)
5) Try to shift to Drive again, without pressing the brake - this would be a TACC command presumably (but the screen displays Autosteer not available - it does not reference "Cruise control" in my experience, usually).

In this sequence, it would be possible to send a TACC or Autosteer enable command, because the foot is not on the brake. But you SHOULD have your foot on the brake if you're trying to put the car in Drive.

So the questions are:
1) Is there some "defeat" which allows the car to try to enable Autosteer/TACC even when the foot is on the brake (and if it did enable, wouldn't it immediately cancel)?

2) Why would you shift to Drive with your foot off of the brake? What is it about the car's behavior that causes users to do this? I've done it, and the OP has done it. I don't quite understand why I would have done it. (I guess I have no control of my actions. )

3) Why does the car complain about Autosteer not available? We're talking about two stalk pulls here - the first one puts it in drive, and the second one should only engage TACC - not Autosteer. I would argue that from Park, THREE pulls of the stalk should be required to even attempt to engage Autosteer - not two (two would be for TACC). Now, to be clear, the OP thought it wasn't Autosteer, but it was TACC causing his issue. But the question is why does the car complain about Autosteer not being available? We only pulled twice from Park - under no circumstances should that be interpreted as a request for Autosteer. Right? I think it says "Autosteer not available" (it might say "Autopilot not available" but I don't think so)

Like I said, further investigation needed to develop a full understanding, if you have concern about this. I guess I'm not too concerned because I haven't had the car accelerate...yet.

 

[lolder]

I may not have written things clearly in the other thread. I always put my foot on the brake any time I get into any vehicle (just a safety thing that is ingrained habit).

I think my comment about the accelerator pedal was that I gently press it to start going once I am ready to drive. I don’t just randomly push it for no reason. And I generally tap it lightly to release brake hold in my driveway and then let it roll forward out of the driveway. Otherwise if I am on flat land I gently depress it to drive (not a tap).

Rather than have multiple failures causing "unintended acceleration" do you think it's possible you may have tapped it somewhat harder than normal this time? It wasn't pedal confusion because you did stop it with the brake. These are very powerful cars and it seems like you were on gravel which would have made a lot of ruckus.

 

[brandonee916]

You could have the problem with the steering wheel control module not registering the shift... it's the same module that controls the turn signals that caused so many problems for people.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You could have the problem with the steering wheel control module not registering the shift... it's the same module that controls the turn signals that caused so many problems for people.

With the exception of when I first get in the car, I have never had a problem changing from Reverse to Drive or vice versa. So for me, I don't think this is likely the issue. It seems to be some sort of start-up delay issue. Also, remember that in order for the reported behavior to occur, it actually has to register two pulls on the stalk. Everything seems to be registering - but the result of the first input is delayed.

 

[sixela]

Wonder if it still would happen with pin to drive. It can be slow, but once the PIN has been entered you're not going to put it into drive twice...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Wonder if it still would happen with pin to drive. It can be slow, but once the PIN has been entered you're not going to put it into drive twice...

It does. Like I said, some investigation/attention needed to really figure things out, but this was definitely happening with PIN-to-drive for me as well.

My sense is that this started occurring in February or March or so. I don't remember exactly when.

 

[eprosenx]

I did a little fiddling when I went to move my car from the Chargepoint. I was able to reproduce the behavior of a double pull being required, yet sometimes it will go to Drive when the Easy Entry has not finished its job.

I tried to get it to engage Autosteer/TACC, but it said Cruise was unavailable, even with a car in front (and showing up on the screen) - may be geofenced to some extent - or maybe some other requirement was not satisfied.

In any case, further experimentation needed to see if this is actually reproducible.

One thing I was thinking, though - normally you would have your foot on the brake when trying to engage Drive (it's required!). If your foot is on the brake, then it should not be possible to engage either TACC or Autosteer (they would be immediately canceled I assume).

So, it's a little mysterious how this could ever happen - unless you actually follow this sequence:

1) Get in car, hold brake.
2) Shift to Drive
3) Look down, see the car is still in Park, based on the screen indication and lack of parking brake removal (audio cue would be no parking brake release sound)
4) Release Brake (as you do this, the delayed shift to Drive occurs without further input)
5) Try to shift to Drive again, without pressing the brake - this would be a TACC command presumably (but the screen displays Autosteer not available - it does not reference "Cruise control" in my experience, usually).

In this sequence, it would be possible to send a TACC or Autosteer enable command, because the foot is not on the brake. But you SHOULD have your foot on the brake if you're trying to put the car in Drive.

So the questions are:
1) Is there some "defeat" which allows the car to try to enable Autosteer/TACC even when the foot is on the brake (and if it did enable, wouldn't it immediately cancel)?

2) Why would you shift to Drive with your foot off of the brake? What is it about the car's behavior that causes users to do this? I've done it, and the OP has done it. I don't quite understand why I would have done it. (I guess I have no control of my actions. )

3) Why does the car complain about Autosteer not available? We're talking about two stalk pulls here - the first one puts it in drive, and the second one should only engage TACC - not Autosteer. I would argue that from Park, THREE pulls of the stalk should be required to even attempt to engage Autosteer - not two (two would be for TACC). Now, to be clear, the OP thought it wasn't Autosteer, but it was TACC causing his issue. But the question is why does the car complain about Autosteer not being available? We only pulled twice from Park - under no circumstances should that be interpreted as a request for Autosteer. Right? I think it says "Autosteer not available" (it might say "Autopilot not available" but I don't think so)

Like I said, further investigation needed to develop a full understanding, if you have concern about this. I guess I'm not too concerned because I haven't had the car accelerate...yet.

FYI, it was the Tesla rep who read my the engineering readout of the issue. They said it was TACC enabled.

I hope to call them back and get more details (or stop by the service center and speak with them in person).

Note that now that I have details about it being TACC/Autopilot related I can not remember back two months ago about EXACTLY what the state of other cars around me was. Other family members were leaving a family gathering at the time. It is possible that when I "started" the car that another vehicle was pulling out in front of me, etc... I need more details from Tesla on the chronology to perhaps figure out what happened.

I did a little experimenting with TACC in rush hour traffic today and I was able to get it to engage silently from a stop depending on traffic in front of me. It is possible that when I "started" the car, I also managed to somehow engage TACC (due to the double press?), and then as I manually pulled forward and turned, the car decided it had enough space in front of it and it accelerated on cruise control (causing the tire spin on gravel). So I hit the brake and that was the end of it...

I think there is a software defect of some kind here (or improvement that needs to be made), but I have no issues driving the car in the meantime. The danger is relatively low.

 

[brandonee916]

With the exception of when I first get in the car, I have never had a problem changing from Reverse to Drive or vice versa. So for me, I don't think this is likely the issue. It seems to be some sort of start-up delay issue. Also, remember that in order for the reported behavior to occur, it actually has to register two pulls on the stalk. Everything seems to be registering - but the result of the first input is delayed.

No worries Just a suggestion.... lots of us have had issues with the signal stalks, it does sound more like a software delay... I personally don't have this issue because I have Easy Entry profile and things are moving before I attempt to drive. In this Model S loaner I have there is a message that says "Please wait while systems are starting" when I attempt to engage D before its ready to go... sounds like the 3 is missing that delay function

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

"Please wait while systems are starting" when I attempt to engage D before its ready to go...

It is possible to get that message in Model 3 as well, but I think the contactors need to be open when you get in the car, and then you have to be fast.