Model 3 turn signal inconsistency - pain

[davidand]

Do you all - other M3 owners - have the same weird inconsistent behavior with your turn signal indicator, or is it just a fault of my car?

Scenario:
1) you indicate a RIGHT turn (knob fully up), you turn right but you need to turn LEFT immediately after your left turn
2) so immediately after finishing the right-turn maneuver (the steering wheel is likely to be still moving) you try to indicate LEFT (knob fully down)

Expected behavior:
- the car should indicate left

What happens?
- sometimes it does, mostly it does not

I created a test-case in my garage and recorded a YT video. It's clear that the behavior is somewhat consistent when the steering wheel is in a straight position and it's very inconsistent when it's turned to the side.

This is driving me crazy, I'm literally stressed and angry on my car because of this, it's so dangerous to turn without indicating and it's also dangerous to continuously check the center console to see IF the turn signal is active. Is it just me?

 

[UncertainTimes]

it's so dangerous to turn without indicating

*chuckles as former BMW owner*

 

[CKwik240]

I bought mine used early last month and it had a minor issue where the 1st detent on the left signal would not always register. The module was replaced and it works fine now. If you have warranty coverage, just take it in.

As for stressing out, don't. I always try to drive as if I do not have turn signals. Do not rely on them. They are there to help others know your intent but so many people drive as if using a turn signal obligates others to follow them. In a past life, I'd estimate I've investigated over 10,000 accidents. Turn signals were relevant exactly zero times. In every situation that you need to use turn signals, you are yielding the right of way, so you are the one that should only be turning or changing lanes when it's safe to do so.

 

[tm1v2]

*chuckles as former BMW owner*

@UncertainTimes Do BMWs have these same annoying return-to-center turn stalks?

@davidand It's not just you, the way the Model 3 turn stalk works still drives me batty at times. About 6 months into ownership I feel like I'm finally getting more consistent with pressing it just the right amount to cancel a signal when needed. I still much prefer a traditional stalk with different positions for left, no signal, right that you can feel.

It could be worse, at least the 3 doesn't have capacitive buttons on a yoke spoke...

 

[E90alex]

Do BMWs have these same annoying return-to-center turn stalks?

Yes for like 15 years but they have now gone back to “regular” turn signal stalks. But I’ve never had a problem with them in my BMW like you’re showing. In a BMW the second detent always activates that sides signal. The first detent either cancels the current signal (no matter which side is blinking) or initiates the single/triple blinker if no signal is currently on.

It seems Tesla may have programmed some “logic” into it where if the wheel is turned it assumes you’re trying to cancel the signal instead of signal the other direction?

Looks like if you hold it then it forces the left turn signal. Or you can try double pressing it to signal the opposite way…one to cancel the right signal and then again to signal left.

 

[BierNut]

I’ve noticed the same, particularly while in roundabouts. I agree the inconsistency is annoying, makes it difficult to develop a repeatable process.

 

[davidand]

Thanks everyone who commented so far. I'm quite unhappy about this happening to more people as it doesn't seem like a unique problem that can be solved by a service, rather an annoying bug in the software

@E90alex Actually the issue is that even if I hold down the turn signal for very long, it does not always work. (At the very end of my video, I did hold it down for seconds and it still didn't trigger the turn signal)

I agree that a regular turn signal is way better because there is a very clear feedback to the driver: if the stalk is down, you are indicating, otherwise you don't. In Teslas (M3), you have to look at the center console constantly, which is pretty much out of the driver's viewing angle anyway

I reported this to Tesla service right now, let's see what they respond.. I would very much appreciate if this programmed "logic" could be disabled.

 

[Transformer]

In Teslas (M3), you have to look at the center console constantly, which is pretty much out of the driver's viewing angle anyway

I reported this to Tesla service right now, let's see what they respond.

How did it turn out?

The turn signal clicking is supposed to be loud enough to hear. If you can't hear it, maybe Joe mode is working too well or Metallica is up too loud?

 

[jackmott]

@UncertainTimes Do BMWs have these same annoying return-to-center turn stalks?

@davidand It's not just you, the way the Model 3 turn stalk works still drives me batty at times. About 6 months into ownership I feel like I'm finally getting more consistent with pressing it just the right amount to cancel a signal when needed. I still much prefer a traditional stalk with different positions for left, no signal, right that you can feel.

It could be worse, at least the 3 doesn't have capacitive buttons on a yoke spoke...

Same, its the worst turn signal stalk I've experienced.

 

[davidand]

How did it turn out?

The turn signal clicking is supposed to be loud enough to hear. If you can't hear it, maybe Joe mode is working too well or Metallica is up too loud?

Unfortunately the service did nothing. I gave 1-star rating to my experience, Tesla called what happened, I explained and filed a complaint. I will try another service center because this turn signal indicator story is a nightmare. I push the stalk left/right and nothing happens - just because the stupid computer thinks that if I turn the steering wheel in the opposite direction I didn't mean to indicate. It's stupid - if I push the break pedal, I mean to break; if I push the turn signal indicator, I mean to indicate.
Yes, Joe Mode was enabled for me because autopilot beep/buup is really annoying when other people are in the car. Nonetheless, I'm not using autopilot at all anymore (phantom breakings happen every day), so I turned off Joe Mode. The only thing I mind that parking sensor chimes are really very loud, but I try your suggestion.

 

[MountainPass]

While sitting at a long light the other day, I noticed that the UI indicator symbol and clicking sound are actually not in sync with the turn signals on the exterior of the car. After long enough they go out of sync, then slowly back into sync.

 

[surfdabbler]

Yes, this is infuriating!! Even after 2 years of driving, the indicators frustrate me daily. I actually love the idea and feel of the software-driven indicator - it's just badly implemented.

There are several easily fixable software issues related to this...
1 - the software does not poll the switches often enough, so a fast press will not register. You have to press it slowly. The software needs to poll the switches at least twice as often.
2 - finishing a left turn will cancel the right indicator, and vice-versa. For example, on a roundabout, if you indicate in the opposite direction as you prepare to exit the roundabout, the car says "oh we're no longer turning in the original direction, so I'll cancel that indicator for you."
3 - It would also be nice to have a delay - if the driver has just activated a full-click turn signal, the car shouldn't cancel it within the first second.
4 - Normally, a half click will cancel the indicator... UNLESS the software has just automatically turned off the indicator, in which case the manual half-click will turn it back on for three flashes! There just needs to be a delay. If the software cancels the blinker, and then the driver does a half-click within 1 second, don't interpret that as turning it back on again!

It's ridiculous. A competent programmer could easily fix these issues in no time. Send me the code and I'll do it.

 

[davidand]

@surfdabbler I completely agree and frankly, I am very surprised that people are satisfied with their Model 3s, I really don't enjoy driving it at all, due to autopilot and turn signal indicator bugs.

 

[CKwik240]

@surfdabbler I completely agree and frankly, I am very surprised that people are satisfied with their Model 3s, I really don't enjoy driving it at all, due to autopilot and turn signal indicator bugs.

But you don't have to use either... Lol

 

[XPsionic]

Personally I have no issues at all with my model 3's turn signals, I do and did own BMWs with the same style of signals, and many other cars with conventional signals as well.

When I leave roundabouts I just do a quick press to the first detent to indicate on the way out for 3 blinks, but maybe if your roundabout is huge or if you have to drive really slow due to traffic, that doesn't work for you.

Cancelling a signal is simply a quick press to the first detent, up OR down on the signal stalk. There's nothing else to it, if you have a hard time cancelling, either your stalk has a mechanical issue, or you don't know what pressing to the first detent means. If you're old enough to have used an SLR camera, it's basically the same as the half press to focus before taking the actual picture.

 

[davidand]

I am kind of tempted to say that there are several versions of M3 turn signal indicators - some of them may work. Mine definitely doesn't work as described, because a "quick press" of the knob sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't - depending on how "quick" is the press and what the software thinks about the steering wheel position

(Note: I was trying to quote @XPsionic on "Personally I have no issues at all with my model 3's turn signals" - but the quote hasn't appeared, my bad)

 

[SteveM3Perf]

Hi,
My M3P updated to the new software today and I just drove from Abu Dhabi to Dubai (and back again).
Before I left home - I made sure that the Auto Cancel indicator option was checked and then I set off.
On the motorway you now push the indicator stalk gently and whereas before a gentle push would give three blinks of the relevant side (mostly - but sometimes it did nothing) - it now stays on until you change lane.
Once you move into the other lane - they reliably auto cancel.
On way back home from Dubai - first time I put indicator on to change lane it did not auto cancel when I changed lanes.
I looked in the menu and saw that it had “forgot” the auto cancel setting from earlier in the day!
Will now see over next few days whether the setting persists or whether you need to select it every journey (which would be a right pain!)
Cheers
Steve

 

[heavyD]

I was so happy when BMW ditched this style of turn signal. The first time I drove one of these there was a bit of a sigh when I realized that Tesla had decided to go down this path.

 

[Transformer]

Cancelling a signal is simply a quick press to the first detent, up OR down on the signal stalk. There's nothing else to it, if you have a hard time cancelling, either your stalk has a mechanical issue, or you don't know what pressing to the first detent means.

... or your quick press is too quick for it.

I've had no trouble with this stalk since learning on TMC to press a little longer, say 1/4 sec instead of 1/10 sec.

 

[XPsionic]

... or your quick press is too quick for it.

I've had no trouble with this stalk since learning on TMC to press a little longer, say 1/4 sec instead of 1/10 sec.

Yep. I do wonder what OP's doing to cause all these issues. My old dad has a bit of an issue with the BMW signal stalk, he doesn't quite grasp the 2 detent design and always slams on it HARD so it'll go to the end of the 2nd detent every time. Then of course he has issues cancelling an unwanted signal.

OP also says they don't notice the ticking sound and have to look at the screen to confirm if the signal's on too.