It is hard to know what exists and doesn't since COVID but I believe it's still there.
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Model 3 vs Model S long trips at 80 mph
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It is hard to know what exists and doesn't since COVID but I believe it's still there.
Thank you for this i will investigate this more. Yes, I have 220v at home and charge or did every night.
JCtx
Member
More than changing, they should force EV manufacturers to add a realistic HWY range. Most people don't understand the city/hwy ratings on the window sticker; they only see the unrealistic 353-mile range Tesla puts there (or whatever it is on each model). And same thing on their website. Unfortunately, all manufacturers are going to lie if they can get away with it, so they have to be forced not to. As EVs become more common, the EPA should get tougher with those claims. We'll see.
nomis_nehc
Member
I mean, to be fair though, though a short stop of 10-15 min is prob enough to get from one point to another for most, sometimes the supercharging station may be a bit out of the way. So that 15 min stop is now 15 + 10 or something like that.
We have 2017 S 100D and 2018 3 AWD Stealth Performance. Model S is the highway car:
- Air Suspension provides smoother ride. Also, improved aerodynamics when it lowers at highway speed.
- Range Mode helps trim burn rate.
- More room.
- We can reliably do Philadelphia - DC - Philadelphia in the S without needing a SuperCharger stop. The 3 needs a stop on the way home every time. Our DC daughter and her husband bought a Y and installed a charger, so that round-trip range is less important.
Can you really blame people for wanting a "Normal" car? A car they can drive like the last car they owned - 80mph (keeping up with traffic), climate control set to whatever's comfortable, stopping every 4 hours instead of every 2? We're definitely not there yet.
My 2019 Model 3 LR AWD needs to stop every 150ish miles in the winter if you drive it like a normal car (75-80mph, heat set on 70-72 degrees F) and don't run it from 50ish down to 10ish % per charge (stressful in winter). That's why when you read these surveys of how many miles of range people want, and it's something like 250-300 miles - those ICE car owners are thinking they can actually drive 250-300 miles with that range on a road trip. That's just not true. With weather, battery degradation, and generous charging buffer, 200 miles is probably the most you're going to get on any EV available today at 80mph / 70 degree climate. I know other EV's outperform their rated range a bit but it's not close to what an ICE can do.
We probably need 500 EPA miles to drive like a normal ICE car in the winter, with no special training/understanding needed. We'll see how a Plaid + Model S does. When I road trip my ICE car and I have no passengers, I stop every 4-5 hours for gas and food for 30-45 minutes.
My 2019 Model 3 LR AWD needs to stop every 150ish miles in the winter if you drive it like a normal car (75-80mph, heat set on 70-72 degrees F) and don't run it from 50ish down to 10ish % per charge (stressful in winter). That's why when you read these surveys of how many miles of range people want, and it's something like 250-300 miles - those ICE car owners are thinking they can actually drive 250-300 miles with that range on a road trip. That's just not true. With weather, battery degradation, and generous charging buffer, 200 miles is probably the most you're going to get on any EV available today at 80mph / 70 degree climate. I know other EV's outperform their rated range a bit but it's not close to what an ICE can do.
We probably need 500 EPA miles to drive like a normal ICE car in the winter, with no special training/understanding needed. We'll see how a Plaid + Model S does. When I road trip my ICE car and I have no passengers, I stop every 4-5 hours for gas and food for 30-45 minutes.
diamond.g
Active Member
But the 353 is the EPA rating, using the EPA parameters. Just like how Elon claimed the EPA shorted them when the S was rated for 392 miles instead of the 402 it ended up at. The EPA highway test averages too low of a speed AND the EPA test drives the car till it stops moving. Neither of which people are going to be willing to do.
People have this idea that, for some reason, Tesla should behave differently than every other car manufacturer and say something like "We know the EPA test that all EVs are based on says XXX range, but if you drive 10 miles above the speed limit, your actual range will be YYY".
I understand people wanting more realistic EPA ranting, but this needs to be pointed SQUARELY at the EPA, instead of people saying "Tesla should say X" or " Tesla is lying about range". They are publishing what the tests show, nothing more or less. The tests dont reflect reality for most EV drivers (nor most gas powered drivers either, at least in my experience... but of course this statement will bring out people who say "but I always got EPA range in my XXX vehicle!).
I agree with the statement "The EPA tests need to be changed". I dont agree with statements that say, in effect "Tesla should ignore EPA range testing and publish some lesser number, because reasons". The testing needs to be applied across the board. There isnt any reason for a manufacturer to hamstring themself listing a lower number than the EPA tests show, tesla or otherwise.
diamond.g
Active Member
To be fair, Tesla could fix this issue by displaying GoM instead of the fixed value (basically show the same data shown in the Energy screen, you guys remember when we didn’t have the energy screen, lol). If folks could see how their driving was affecting the range they were getting without having to dig into a menu these particular questions/comments would go away (or at a minimum be turned into some other complaint I suppose).
Also as annoying as it is, maybe they should switch to miles per kilowatt hour instead of watt hours per mile at the same time they switch to a GoM.
Well, let's see what is the same or different with a pro/con list:
Pros
1. Doesn't have to go to the gas station every week or two because it fills overnight at your house
2. Less maintenance
3. Per mile fuel is cheaper
4. Remote pre warming or cooling, even inside a garage because no carbon monoxide
5. Smooth instant torque at various speeds from the single gear instead of transmission, downshifts, etc.
And so there is the Con of the list:
1. On the small portion of the time people are traveling, they have to stop more frequently
I continue to find this fascinating, how people focus only on the road tripping use case as if that is the only use of the car 100% of the time, with this less convenient factor. It seems almost willful how people are trying to ignore all of the factors that are more convenient about electric most of the time in order to complain about the thing that is less convenient less of the time.
And obviously different people value different things more or less, so maybe you are unwilling to take all of those advantages because that one disadvantage is more significant to you. But for many other people, that is a very worthy and reasonable trade.
Lot of people don't want to 'ruin' their family vacation because they bought an EV that has limitations. I like my car a lot. When I drove it 1000 miles round trip in November, I was stopping more frequently to change diapers than to charge. So for me it's whatever. But when I tell people you need to charge every 150 miles on the longest range EV's (or drive in the slow lane), they say "Why would I buy an EV when it doesn't meet my needs? I'll just get a non plug in hybrid or a normal gas car"
It's really hard for someone who has always gone to a gas station once a week to see getting rid of that as a worthwhile trade off to worrying about running out of charge on a road trip. People don't want to change. They don't want to inconvenience themselves at all; going to the gas station is seen as a normal habit of life, but slow road trips with a higher risk of being stranded is a big deal.
I myself was almost left stranded last summer when a power outage shut down a supercharger right before I arrived with 20% battery left. I had to find a hotel with level 2 charging, which thankfully wasn't an issue, but my wife and son were certainly shaken up.
We've got a long way to go on charging infrastructure and battery capacity before we can truly get to mass market for EV's.
It's really hard for someone who has always gone to a gas station once a week to see getting rid of that as a worthwhile trade off to worrying about running out of charge on a road trip. People don't want to change. They don't want to inconvenience themselves at all; going to the gas station is seen as a normal habit of life, but slow road trips with a higher risk of being stranded is a big deal.
I myself was almost left stranded last summer when a power outage shut down a supercharger right before I arrived with 20% battery left. I had to find a hotel with level 2 charging, which thankfully wasn't an issue, but my wife and son were certainly shaken up.
We've got a long way to go on charging infrastructure and battery capacity before we can truly get to mass market for EV's.
Yes, they should put a city and highway range just like ICE cars put city/hwy mpg.
EVERY car has limitations. Period.
And I know a guy whose gas car needs to be filled up every 150 miles.
And this is the kind of disturbing hyperbole fear mongering that is trying to scare people away from them. Taking a 15-20 minute break every three hours is hardly "ruining" anything.
Yeah, of course. I grumped and griped about having to switch from a phone with a physical button keyboard to one that only had a touch screen, because it seemed like it was going to be less convenient and slower and less accurate to type on, etc. And it did feel a little annoying and awkward at first. And then I got used to it, and it's not a big deal. Oh well.
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