model 3 vs subaru wrx sti.. also model 3 as a rally car?

[angelman]

A girl a work took delivery of a brand new wrx sti. I was half jokingly saying things like, oh that's awesome, of course my model 3 could still take you at the lights. I don't really have any idea if that's true though. I did wonder how they stack up as I imagine both cars have great handling and grip.
I also wondered if anyone had considered turning the model 3 into a rally car. I would have thought with the great acceleration, torque and great handling it might make a great rally car. Would need some hardcore reinforcement of the battery pack and some major work on the suspension of course.

 

[WilliamG]

Model 3 LR AWD or Performance would murder an STI stop light to stop light.

<—former STI owner.

 

[Perscitus]

STis and WRXs, even fairly heavily modified (standard bolt ons, ethanol fuel blends) would have a hard time keeping up with the acceleration of both the LR AWD and LR RWD, and of course any Performance flavor Model 3.

Once up at speed and in their case in boost, a low enough gear etc. they can hang.

However in current form the STi is effectively a 15-20 year old car with a 6 year old chassis and an almost 10 year old body frame.

Toom drivetrain loss, old diffs old gearing setup, archaic ECU logic and a poor power to weight ratio compared to the old late 90s, early 00s models.

 

[Shemp]

Possible unpopular opinion: As fun and quick as the Model 3 is on the road and at stop lights, I don't think it's well suited to being a race-car.... The demands on the battery in racing conditions are too severe... The battery heats up quickly and performance starts to fall off... after a few hot-laps it's pretty much dead while an ICE car is still going strong. In most of the track testing I've seen videos of, the Tesla only lasts a few laps before it's battery is depleted. It's also heavy and doesn't corner like you would want a race-car to... it makes up for it's handling shortcomings with brutal acceleration though.

IMHO the 3 is a monster on the streets, but if you're looking for a track weapon, you could do better elsewhere. Flame away.

 

[derekmw]

STis and WRXs, even fairly heavily modified (standard bolt ons, ethanol fuel blends) would have a hard time keeping up with the acceleration of both the LR AWD and LR RWD, and of course any Performance flavor Model 3.

Once up at speed and in their case in boost, a low enough gear etc. they can hang.

However in current form the STi is effectively a 15-20 year old car with a 6 year old chassis and an almost 10 year old body frame.

Toom drivetrain loss, old diffs old gearing setup, archaic ECU logic and a poor power to weight ratio compared to the old late 90s, early 00s models.

^ This. I've owned 3 STi's since they first came to the US in 2004 and they were (and still are) great cars. But for some reason, Subaru doesn't seem interested in making any major updates to the car. The power to weight ratio when it came here was pretty good...but nothing has really changed since then. On top of that, there isn't really a good enough compelling reason to shell out the extra cost for an STi compared to the WRX.

But in any case, it will not be anywhere close to as fast as the AWD or Performance Model 3.

 

[iamroy]

Possible unpopular opinion: As fun and quick as the Model 3 is on the road and at stop lights, I don't think it's well suited to being a race-car.... The demands on the battery in racing conditions are too severe... The battery heats up quickly and performance starts to fall off... after a few hot-laps it's pretty much dead while an ICE car is still going strong. In most of the track testing I've seen videos of, the Tesla only lasts a few laps before it's battery is depleted. It's also heavy and doesn't corner like you would want a race-car to... it makes up for it's handling shortcomings with brutal acceleration though.

IMHO the 3 is a monster on the streets, but if you're looking for a track weapon, you could do better elsewhere. Flame away.

100% agree. There's another thread on here comparing the M3P -vs- the new C8 Corvette. I've had lots of time on the track in previous Corvettes and while the M3P would win off the line, the Vette would catch up as soon as you hit a turn on the track and would continue to pull away for the entire rest of the track session.

Also gotta remember that most of the acceleration for the M3P is happening off the line. That power drastically drops off as you get into higher speeds, whereas other sports cars are going to maintain a good chunk of that power due to gearing.

These are amazing machines in their own right. Track weapons, though, they are not.

 

[640k]

everyone in here hit the nail on the head. the STi is an over-priced, long in the tooth, flagship "racecar" offered by a legacy auto maker that has been "playing" the popularity game for the last 10+ years, just to keep up. their style, fit and finish and technology have all severely lacked the competition. Subaru continues to thrive off of name recognition, a long-standing partnership with Toyota and by having a more accessible and true AWD platform than the competition.

hell the 0-60 on the SR+ is only .5s SLOWER than the STi and that's if the STi doesn't bog down at the line and smokes its clutch trying to get up to speed.

that said, i think the 3's footprint and technology gives it a disadvantage during track events. i know there are users on there that track their 3s and maybe they can weigh in.

 

[stonelance]

I sold my 16yo WRX when I bought my P3D-. Unless she is super interested in autocross or rally, she really should have bought a Model 3 instead . While I found the Subaru reliability really good, it isn't going to match the low total cost of ownership of the Tesla

 

[640k]

I sold my 16yo WRX when I bought my P3D-. Unless she is super interested in autocross or rally, she really should have bought a Model 3 instead . While I found the Subaru reliability really good, it isn't going to match the low total cost of ownership of the Tesla

19 MPG combined in the STi. the 2015+ WRX gets at least 30(ish) MPG combined. i drove my 08 STi for 12 years with 10 miles off the lot. if i did the total cost of ownership of that car, i probably could have had three P3D- Teslas by now.

speaking of reliability, my engine went poof (or at least tried to) right around 115k. $4800 later I managed to get another 60k miles out of it before selling. haven't looked back.

 

[GreenMtnM3]

I owned a 2011 WRX hatchback for five years and loved the car. It did everything well and was a blast to drive. I've lived in New England for 25 years now and the WRX was hands-down the best car in the snow that I've owned. With good snow tires on it it was far more fun to drive on snowy roads than it was on dry pavement. Something about Subaru's differential setup allows the power to be driven to all four wheels very evenly so oversteer is incredibly predictable and you can steer the car with the throttle like no other I've driven.

The car was also really quick. 0-60 in under 5 seconds, according to the tests. I had a base WRX, for which I paid $25K new. It was fun, practical, reliable and an amazing value. It was not perfect.... It was loud. The wind and tire noise were much worse than a car should be in this decade. The stereo, and in particular the phone integration, was abysmal. Fuel economy was OK at best, I got 28-30 on the highway, and about 24 in mixed use.

The M3 is undoubtedly faster to 60. It is also a wonderful long distance cruiser, something the WRX is definitely not. But I'd argue that the WRX is more 'fun' to drive, at least on the street. All in all, I prefer to own the M3, which is why I no longer own the WRX. But they are great cars, and at times I miss mine.

I have been watching "Launch Control" about Subaru North Americas Rally and Rally Cross teams. I has made me consider if the Tesla would make a decent platform to build a rally car around. I think the motors and software would be terrific, you have the ability to really put power down quickly in a highly controlled way, and there are simply a lot less moving parts to worry about. Rallycross in particular rewards the best launches, and as most of us will agree, nothing launches like an electric. The battery is going to be the challenge. It would have to be really heavily armored or moved out of the bottom of the car, meaning that the Center of Gravity would go up, which is obviously not good.

There are already a few folks out there trying to build electric Rally Cars. Opel has announced plans to build and sell one, a relatively low powered version of its production street EV, and there is a Hyundai Kona (in name only) being developed in New Zealand that looks to be competitive with gas powered rally cars (300+ continuous HP, 800 peak HP). I'm sure it will take years before electric rally cars are a fast, reliable, and versatile as the current gas cars, but I believe that the tremendous low speed performance of electric, combined with the electronic power delivery aids (traction control, torque vectoring) makes their ultimate potential higher than gas cars. It promises to be fun to watch!

 

[e-FTW]

I owned a 2011 WRX hatchback for five years and loved the car. It did everything well and was a blast to drive. I've lived in New England for 25 years now and the WRX was hands-down the best car in the snow that I've owned. With good snow tires on it it was far more fun to drive on snowy roads than it was on dry pavement. Something about Subaru's differential setup allows the power to be driven to all four wheels very evenly so oversteer is incredibly predictable and you can steer the car with the throttle like no other I've driven.

The car was also really quick. 0-60 in under 5 seconds, according to the tests. I had a base WRX, for which I paid $25K new. It was fun, practical, reliable and an amazing value. It was not perfect.... It was loud. The wind and tire noise were much worse than a car should be in this decade. The stereo, and in particular the phone integration, was abysmal. Fuel economy was OK at best, I got 28-30 on the highway, and about 24 in mixed use.

The M3 is undoubtedly faster to 60. It is also a wonderful long distance cruiser, something the WRX is definitely not. But I'd argue that the WRX is more 'fun' to drive, at least on the street. All in all, I prefer to own the M3, which is why I no longer own the WRX. But they are great cars, and at times I miss mine.

Every single one of those words, I was going to post. Had ‘09 and ‘13 WRX hatches myself. In the proper colour of course. The best morning commute therapy was a fresh coat of snow and one of these cars.
There is a reason why the Subaru fans are about as rabid as Tesla fans. I have been the former, am now the later, but do look fondly at my avatar once in awhile. I am disappointed that Subaru has become stale with those cars. I kept hoping they were going to make a through-the-road hybrid (like the RAV4) back then since they seemed to not want to do anything new with their powertrains. Today, they would have to announce a full electric WRX/STi to become relevant.

Maybe I need to go back to Canada with my Performance 3 and flog it big time in the snow...

 

[Perscitus]

Possible unpopular opinion: As fun and quick as the Model 3 is on the road and at stop lights, I don't think it's well suited to being a race-car.... The demands on the battery in racing conditions are too severe... The battery heats up quickly and performance starts to fall off... after a few hot-laps it's pretty much dead while an ICE car is still going strong. In most of the track testing I've seen videos of, the Tesla only lasts a few laps before it's battery is depleted. It's also heavy and doesn't corner like you would want a race-car to... it makes up for it's handling shortcomings with brutal acceleration though.

IMHO the 3 is a monster on the streets, but if you're looking for a track weapon, you could do better elsewhere. Flame away.

Also agreed 100%. Neither the Model 3 (any all flavors) or the current offering from Subaru are race-cars or track toy material.

Will and are people (and notibly even the manufacturer itself) forcing Teslas for track duty? Sure. More power to them.

But in reality these and almost all mass produced cars are for daily driven speed limited civilian duty and excel at that. Get occupants from A to B is relative comfort and safety.

 

[m3snowy]

All you rally fans, not sure if you saw this last winter... by @Mad Hungarian

The true story of a Model 3 Performance snow rallying at night

 

[StealthP3D]

Possible unpopular opinion: As fun and quick as the Model 3 is on the road and at stop lights, I don't think it's well suited to being a race-car.... The demands on the battery in racing conditions are too severe... The battery heats up quickly and performance starts to fall off... after a few hot-laps it's pretty much dead while an ICE car is still going strong. In most of the track testing I've seen videos of, the Tesla only lasts a few laps before it's battery is depleted. It's also heavy and doesn't corner like you would want a race-car to... it makes up for it's handling shortcomings with brutal acceleration though.

IMHO the 3 is a monster on the streets, but if you're looking for a track weapon, you could do better elsewhere. Flame away.

While I agree the Model 3 is not designed as a race track weapon, the Track Mode update for the Performance version took care of 90% of the battery overheating issue (it pre-cools the battery before you begin). It still doesn't make it the ideal track weapon but it will beat most production cars out there by a large margin for as many laps as it can do before the battery is depleted to 20% SOC. Again, that doesn't make it a racing car or a good track weapon.

 

[Paul Cantrell]

^ This. I've owned 3 STi's since they first came to the US in 2004 and they were (and still are) great cars.

But in any case, it will not be anywhere close to as fast as the AWD or Performance Model 3.

Agreed, I had an 05 and a 18 STi and they weren't as fast off the line OR through a sharp corner. What they were, as someone else mentioned, the most fun car in the snow ever. The triple limited slip differentials ( with driver controllable center differential ) made the car amazing in the snow. Problem here in Boston was not enough snow days per winter!

All modern cars including the Ford Focus RS I had right before the 18STi have the problem that when the stability system kicks in, they kick in very aggressively and in a non-linear, non-predictable fashion. Unlike the Ford and Subaru ( and every other car I know ) you can't turn off the stability system in the Tesla.

Track mode opens up the envelope some, but you still abruptly hit the nannies, in jarring and undesirable fashion. I'll probably buy the MPP box at some point so I can totally overcome the stability system.

Of course the P3D+ comes at quite a price premium over the STi, but I don't regret buying it (and it's a much better machine for commuting)

 

[Dolemite]

Glad to see a lot of Subaru knobs on these forums - gives me a bit of ease about my decision to get my PD3-. Seems like there are a lot of BMW transplants, too... funny how the world works.

Wouldn't be wise to get a brand-new STI today. EJ25 is what, 15+ years old now? It's inexcusable - ever since the Evo went, they stopped caring. And especially since the regular WRX is pretty much just as good for daily driving.

Wouldn't pick either the Model 3 or any sedan for that matter as a track car. No car with built-in compromise would be as fun as a proper sports car. If you wanna race, get a $4,000 Miata & knock yourself out. You won't care as much when you ball it up.

 

[JimDog]

A girl a work took delivery of a brand new wrx sti....

I can't wait to get my M3 in a few weeks and when the next person at work tells me about their new car purchase (assuming ICE), I can finally say: "Oh you got one of those old fashion cars. The ones that have the explody engines. You know, burns dino juice and makes mini explosions inside to move the wheels?"

p.s. I can appreciate the ICE for what it was as much as the next owner. Previous S2000 owner and I still have a Honda CBR. But I still think it will be fun to razz people

 

[iamroy]

Excellent thread, but not enough pictures. Here was my wrx:

Awesome little rocket.

 

[Voltron_M3]

Excellent thread, but not enough pictures. Here was my wrx:

View attachment 482943

Awesome little rocket.

I wanna play. Here's a photo of my old WRX

 

[MagnusMako]

Here's my '06 WRX back in January of '07. And yes, that's a Texas license plate. We got some mad crazy winter weather that year in Austin.

A funky, spunky, clunky stick shiftin little go machine that I loved the hell out of. At the time, I thought she was wicked quick - which relatively speaking for the price, she was. I know my LR AWD 3 will out sprint her at any speed but there was something really fun about that car that I won't forget. It just felt very engaging. The 3 is definitely the better daily and long distance driver for many reasons. I know the newer WRX's have gotten a healthy dose of hp increase, but it's still not enough. The turbo lag was definitely a real thing back then (and in particular with my year- heat soak), maybe not as much now but I'm sure it's still there.