TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Model 3 without garage at home/work

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Oyinko, May 12, 2016.

  1. Oyinko

    Oyinko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Hi!

    I've been considering buying a Tesla for a while and it seems the Model 3 will be the perfect car for my need. Hence I put a deposit for the Model 3 the day the car was presented. The Model 3 will replace my 2014 BMW M235i.

    Now comes the charging question. I live in San Francisco (Noe Valley) and don't have any garage. I park my car in the street and can usually find a spot right in front of my apartment. (I rent a unit on the first floor of a townhouse)

    I mostly use the car once or twice a week, mostly during weekends and drive about 8500 miles per year. Hence I figured out I would need to plug the car only maybe once a week. If possible I would like to avoid the public charging stations because I don't have one close to home and I guess they are also more expensive to use.

    What would be my best options to charge the car at home? I could certainly get an autorisation to put a Nema 14-50 next to my frontdoor and plug the car with a cable lying on the sidewalk going from my door to the car. But I'm looking for a better solution :)

    Also what will happen when the car will mostly spend its time unplugged? Will vampire loss be an issue for me?

    Thanks for your inputs!
     
  2. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,205
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    You have a level 2 charger at a walgreens in Noe Valley but it's maybe 30 cents a kW. so that's pretty expensive. Supposedly it used to be free. You might want to check since you're local.

    It's San Fran I'm sure chargers will pop up all over and compete on price or be free...
     
  3. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Messages:
    778
    Location:
    Austin
    take a look at PlugShare and check out what public chargers are in your area, either at home or near any of your regular destinations. It may provide some useful guidance for you :)
     
  4. Oyinko

    Oyinko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I saw this one but the parking is limited to only one hour.... and 30 cents a KW is effectively a lot.
     
  5. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    969
    Location:
    Houston
    The 14-50 outlet is a good idea - how many feet is it from the door to the street? I bought some 10 gauge cable and made my own extension cord just to make sure it wouldn't get warm/hot while charging. A 12 gauge ext cord will work but be sure to monitor the ends for heat while charging and discoloring over time, and replace if it starts degrading. Invest in the best extension cord you can get. Some on here (the forum) will tell you you can't use one, but you definitely can, safely, if you are responsible and careful.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,136
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
  7. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    The Americas
    While the non-garaged have been given carte blanche at SCs from Tesla since their commitment to DENSITY as well as DISTANCE almost 2 years ago, it sounds like you've got a reasonable solution at hand already. Although, given that SF is still in CA, I'd be concerned about securing said properly-gauged extension cable so that the more litigiously-minded don't deliberately accidentally trip over it.

    While more money and headache would be involved, a discreet 14-50 nearer the street with conduit underground would reduce the cabling requirement to the street side of the sidewalk, as it were.

    You're fortunate in that with such light usage (8500 miles/year), you'll barely need to charge once a week. Vampire drain won't be a problem.

    I wouldn't hold my breath for any SCs based upon the forecast maps that Tesla Marketing has foisted upon us. Although with that said, given Elon's commitment to doubling SCs "soon", it would seem reasonable that at least one SC would find its way into SF somewhere. Such a site could be considered Tenderloin beautification - yeah, that would go over well. As if the body shops didn't already have enough work.
     
  8. Oyinko

    Oyinko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I have a plug outside next to the garage door of my neighbor (unit above me). I could certainly put a 14-50 outlet there and run the cable to the street. It's only about 35 feet. But I don't like the idea to have a cable lying on the sidewalk for too long. It will look messy and I'm sure some neighbors will complain :)

    A Supercharger in San Francisco will be fantastic, but hopefully not too far away from Noe Valley :p
     
  9. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,038
    #9 stopcrazypp, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
    I was going to point this out too. If you run a cable, you had better hope no one trips over it or you will be in for a pretty expensive lawsuit. Even if you have a cable cover, you might still get reported, since the sidewalk is city property.

    Edit: I realize you may be talking about a socket nearer to sidewalk, but not the curb. But the same concerns would still apply above.

    That would involve opening up the sidewalk and I'm pretty sure you would not be able to get a permit to install a 14-50 nearer the street. You can try to do it permit-less, but then you are gambling not getting caught or reported, and if the cable is energized all the time then that is a big safety issue (since your cable won't be in the 811 system).

    Basically the same issues mentioned here apply:
    Solution to charge your Model 3 if you don't have any garage?
     
  10. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    The Americas
    Thanks for the link to that other thread.

    One solution for the always-energized aspect is to have a switch/timer so that the 14-50 is energized only when the owner is charging. Not that securing a permit for a separate run under a sidewalk would be any easier in any municipality. The costs involved collectively seem daunting to the point of prohibitive - especially compared to instead just lobbying one's employer for a bank of chargers at the office. In the case above, the OP is fortunate in that he only needs to charge weekly. Although these iPads with wheels are funny things - one does tend to drive more when it is a much more enjoyable activity.

    There is an opportunity here for an avant garde municipality to lead the way in common-sense block by block EV charging. Soon.
     
  11. Zacho

    Zacho New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Florida
    Can you charge in the rain?
     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,038
    Yeah, I'm hoping for some kind of street parking charging solution too, since I live in SF also and also don't currently have a garage. My plan was to rent one when I get my Model 3 (I don't live in a place with street parking in the front of my building, so the OP's situation wouldn't be applicable to me either).

    I've been advocating for Tesla to build paid "urban chargers", so that they can have no qualms about building stations right in the city. If they just build a free supercharger, it'll be subject to the freeloader problem (people who have other options charging there simply because it is free).
     
  13. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,743
    Location:
    Texas
    Of course.
     
  14. CTShore

    CTShore Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Westbrook, CT
    Yes. And in the snow. I park outside in CT year round. I use a simple Nema 14-50.
     
    • Informative x 1
  15. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    The Americas
    Well, if it helps any, in two of the densest counties for ownership so far (LA County and Orange County), there hasn't been much freeloading by the oft-maligned garaged local. It just isn't happening as a chronic problem, and I say that as one of the non-garaged who lives in the middle of a half-dozen SCs. It's like voter fraud - people get riled up about a problem, which is great, except that the problem does not exist in any statistically significant sense. It is also analogous to recreational boat piracy; one horrendous episode gets told and retold until The Problem Is Everywhere. Except it isn't. And it won't be with the Model 3 for quite awhile if ever, either.

    Today, there's more usage by livery than by garaged locals during prime time. I would think the same would be the case in SF due to the airports nearby. And there's more of a problem with owners ICEing their own by not vacating the stall once their charge is complete than anything having to do with locals versus non-locals - it's just a general lack of awareness/consideration, which would be ameliorated somewhat by a proper quarterly newsletter, but I digress.

    Having said all of that, San Francisco will be interesting - it's as dense an urban area as there is in the western US, and if an SC is going to get overrun anywhere, one would think it would be there. Just siting an SC in SF would be a royal pain. South SF maybe? Or better yet, what's the name of that island halfway across the bridge... Alameda? It's been awhile since I lived up that way, but I'd vote for an SC at that island over another mall siting. Not that I recall many sprawling mall properties in SF. If you had a choice, where would you put an SC in SF?
     
  16. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,380
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    You can run a flat 5 gauge extension cable from the 14-50 at the front of your house and simply plug in the UMC when you need to charge. Nobody can trip over it, even a wheelchair can go over it without an issue. But you should also put a camera to keep an eye at the setup
     
    • Like x 1
  17. MSEV

    MSEV Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2014
    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    Nebraska
    I would encourage you to think outside the box. What you are thinking, if it works, great.
    Realize that if you are not needing that many miles, you won't need a NEMA 14-50 and can go with 110/120 volts. I almost went that way, but I go more miles than you and want to be able to go 50 mi to my mom's and back, so I don't like to get below 50% charge and I need to get fully charged in one night at times. So one thought is to get by without 220/240 volts.
    And to keep you thinking differently, I was away from home, visiting my son this weekend. I needed energy for all the driving we did and to get home and I did not use a SC and I did not charge at his home. I had, previously, gotten a CHAdeMO adapter. I charged each day of the trip during meals, parking very near the eating or walking spots, it worked well, and we could have changed plans if we needed a station that wasn't close to the places we picked (so you can think about picking places that are near the station). We share breakfast together on the way home, eating right near another CHAdeMO, getting a 100% charge before we are even done eating, heading home (about 200 miles) without problem and plenty of energy to spare. So check out CHAdeMO sites and see if you go near one or more at different times during your week (when you would shop, where you would eat, etc.) and use it to get a full charge (needing about 1.5 to 2 hrs for a full charge). And, nice for me, it was all free (Kansas City is doing this and doing it well at this point; it may start costing in another year and a half or so).
    If you were to use a Level 2 charge away from home, you would need more time (like the work day to get a full charge), so if one is near work, you could use it instead of having L2 at home.
    Just some thoughts that might help you move into the future of the EV world.
     
    • Informative x 1
  18. newtman

    newtman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2016
    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    San Francisco
    There's a chademo high speed charger at the whole foods off market and the whole foods in Potrero.
     
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,038
    #19 stopcrazypp, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
    My impression is that even the ones installed in LA County and Orange County are not installed in the most dense areas (for example downtown LA) and doesn't really simulate an extremely urban area (like SF or NYC for example). The constant congestion in Hong Kong gives a preview of what really happens in an extremely urban setting (the Hong Kong stations even charge for parking).

    Having a paid station should make the station less attractive to both garaged locals and livery drivers, esp. if the rate charged is significantly higher than home charging (or even close to gasoline equivalent).

    If I had a choice, I would make a paid station designed to primarily serve urban dwellers (similar to the Hong Kong stations) and put it near Van Ness Ave / US 101, where they will likely be building the San Francisco dealership.

    If it has to be free, I would put it near the major junctions for example at Portola (near 280/101 Junction), but there are not malls there. The nearest large shopping center is Stonestown. In the Mission district there is a smaller one on Potrero Ave.

    South SF is too near the San Mateo station.

    The island you refer to is Treasure Island, which might not be a bad choice in terms of distance from existing stations, although I think people would probably prefer not to exit there (and the station would also be stuck in a toll area). Maybe one in Emeryville might be a good idea.
     
  20. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,136
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Stonestown is best for serving through traffic, people driving from south of San Francisco over the Golden Gate. Not as good if it's intended for city dwellers.
     

Share This Page