Model S 1.5?

[spatterso911]

Is it possible that your individual reservation is high enough that it exceeds the production run of the initial version? How many roadsters were sold before Roadster 1.5 emerged, and was there a new reservation list for that version, did your reservation correspond to the version of car you reserved, or did reservation holders simply get notified that their version would be the upgrade?

My feeling is that after introduction, some changes will occur, potentially to hardware tech vs. software tech. Elements such as ACC, parking sensors, interior upgrades or materials changes could occur within the first year of release. The roadster went through two fairly significant interior design changes in it's short lifespan. My reservation is P7577 and it makes me wonder if what I see at introduction is what I'll get on delivery...

 

[dsm363]

They'll probably get to your car by the spring of next year so it'll still be a first generation Model S. I wouldn't worry about ACC, heads up display...etc coming in March of next year and leaving you out. Any changes like that probably won't come until 2014 (just a guess).

I may have some of the early history wrong so one of the 2008 Roadster owners might know better. Basically all first Roadsters were 1.5s (1.5 powertrain). There were a few at the start that had the 2 gear transmission/1.0 powertrain that was shredded after 10,000 but they were quickly replaced.
Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AnOutsider]

I'd imagine that david is right and we'd see a Model S bump around winter of next year. Partly because the car will be on the road 1.5 years at that time and partly because the Model X will be coming out and that would be a good time to give the Model S some attention as well.

 

[TEG]

Is it possible that your individual reservation is high enough that it exceeds the production run of the initial version? How many roadsters were sold before Roadster 1.5 emerged, and was there a new reservation list for that version, did your reservation correspond to the version of car you reserved, or did reservation holders simply get notified that their version would be the upgrade?

Probably a bad example... An "exception" to use that. Ideally a "1.0" would be so good that they don't need to change it until they decide they want to release a "2.0".
For the Roadster, the 1.5 was a "workaround" for a gearbox issue in the 1.0s. They had a tough balancing act at the beginning deciding on how many pre-orders to delay, vs ship some 1.0s that would need to be retrofitted. In the end, I think maybe only a couple dozen 1.0s went out before they started calling them back to turn them into 1.5s, and delivering 1.5s to remaining pre-orders.

When 2.0 came out after Roadster #500, it wasn't really offered as something to sell to those already interested... More along the lines of - "we are making some updates so if you happened to order after a certain date you get the 2.0 instead of the 1.5..." Very few people were in a position to make a choice between the two. VFX was the last 1.5... VFX, did you know much about 2.0 and think about waiting for it instead of proceeding with your 1.5?
When 2.0 morphed to 2.5 it was another similar situation. They decided to make changes to all vehicles after a certain date, and those who recently had placed orders would just get the revised version.
So, it was mostly a matter of ongoing improvements/updates that just insert themselves into the regular order flow.
Perhaps the one big exception that that was the introduction of the Sport variant. In that case it was an "upsell", and customers had to pick, and could "upgrade" existing orders if they wanted the Sport options.

For Model S, who knows... I assume there will be some sorts of updates along the way - perhaps with numeric rev designations. I have no idea if they will just automatically show up to all cars, or if they will be new options introduced.

 

[Joel]

Is it possible that your individual reservation is high enough that it exceeds the production run of the initial version? How many roadsters were sold before Roadster 1.5 emerged, and was there a new reservation list for that version, did your reservation correspond to the version of car you reserved, or did reservation holders simply get notified that their version would be the upgrade?

My feeling is that after introduction, some changes will occur, potentially to hardware tech vs. software tech. Elements such as ACC, parking sensors, interior upgrades or materials changes could occur within the first year of release. The roadster went through two fairly significant interior design changes in it's short lifespan. My reservation is P7577 and it makes me wonder if what I see at introduction is what I'll get on delivery...

When did you reserve your Model S? I'm updating the Model S Reservation Tally

 

[doug]

When 2.0 came out after Roadster #500, it wasn't really offered as something to sell to those already interested... More along the lines of - "we are making some updates so if you happened to order after a certain date you get the 2.0 instead of the 1.5..." Very few people were in a position to make a choice between the two.

Ehh, not quite. Remember it ended up that 2.0 corresponded with the model year change. People who ordered a 2010 MY Roadster (which at one point was called as 2009MY) ended up with Roadster 2.0. The main difference with 2.0 as far as Tesla was concerned was that it was cheaper to produce, yet had a higher base price, and thus had better margins.

Around the time of the infamous price increase, people who had a 2008MY (1.5) reservation (some of which had deposits down for years) were given the option of switching to Roadster 2.0, but still would have to pay the higher 2.0 base price. While people who held 2009/10MY reservations were given the option to "upgrade" to a 2008MY (promoted by Tesla to have additional value since it was the first model year). IIRC switching to the 2008MY came at about a $15K premium.

There's some additional nuance, but that's the gist.


Regarding the Model S, I'm impressed with how the drivetrain has progressed. For example, the model S battery pack Tesla is showing now looks much more refined than the pack we saw this time last year. The motor/inverter package has similarly evolved.

 

[spatterso911]

When did you reserve your Model S? I'm updating the Model S Reservation Tally

I ordered 3/2/12, P7577. I entered a post on the tally, but haven't seen it updated yet.

 

[Joel]

I ordered 3/2/12, P7577. I entered a post on the tally, but haven't seen it updated yet.

Thanks.

 

[rabar10]

Aside from what version number the first "major update" to Model S will get, it's always fun to speculate on what would be added. You know, before version 1 even ships... :biggrin:

That said, I think one of the biggest improvements to the UI would come from adding haptic (touch-feedback) technology on that big 17" screen. This came up in the very first Model S Specs post in '09, and was mentioned a few times before the alphas/betas rolled out, before it became clear that this wouldn't make the cut for the initial release.

There's some noise out about this type of tech potentially showing up on new tablets (looking at you, iPad 3/HD rumor mill), and I think it's a slam-dunk fit for automotive touchscreen applications. It restores the 'button feel' that one would want to navigate the screen without taking your focus off of the road entirely.

Example: CNET TV: Senseg demos prototype touch feedback technology - Nov 2011 - uses an electrostatic field to "modulate friction", no moving parts. Seen recently in this CNET article.

 

[AnOutsider]

The Fisker Karma has haptic feedback on the command center. I actually found it a welcome addition.

 

[dsm363]

I think Tesla could find a good renevue stream by offering upgrades to things like the touch screen and bigger SSD drive as new ones come out. They would be paid upgrades of course. This would be something that no automaker has ever done before which is improve on older models where fesible through upgrades.

 

[TEG]

The Fisker Karma has haptic feedback on the command center. I actually found it a welcome addition.

From what I understand, 'haptic' could vibrate the panel on acceptance of a function press to give the user positive confirmation that a selection was made.
When I used the Karma display it felt like the whole display "clicked" forward as you pushed on it. Maybe that is the haptic at work, or could it be they did something different?
Just put the whole display on a hinge, and have a button behind the display so whenever you press hard on the screen it acts like a 'mouse click'?

 

[AnOutsider]

From what I understand, 'haptic' could vibrate the panel on acceptance of a function press to give the user positive confirmation that a selection was made.
When I used the Karma display it felt like the whole display "clicked" forward as you pushed on it. Maybe that is the haptic at work, or could it be they did something different?
Just put the whole display on a hinge, and have a button behind the display so whenever you press hard on the screen it acts like a 'mouse click'?

No, that sounds more like the "surepress" crap that RIM did on the Blackberry Storm. This just gave a slight vibration when I tapped things.

 

[TEG]

...People who ordered a 2010 MY Roadster (which at one point was called as 2009MY) ended up with Roadster 2.0. The main difference with 2.0 as far as Tesla was concerned was that it was cheaper to produce, yet had a higher base price, and thus had better margins.

Around the time of the infamous price increase, people who had a 2008MY (1.5) reservation (some of which had deposits down for years) were given the option of switching to Roadster 2.0, but still would have to pay the higher 2.0 base price. While people who held 2009/10MY reservations were given the option to "upgrade" to a 2008MY (promoted by Tesla to have additional value since it was the first model year). IIRC switching to the 2008MY came at about a $15K premium.

There's some additional nuance, but that's the gist.

Thanks for the additional recollections. Part of my point was trying to address the question of "automatic upgrades" versus "optional upgrades".
Sure there was a window of time where some people may have been able to pick a 2008/1.5 or a 2010/2.0, but it really was more of an automatic transition.
Orders after a certain date would automatically get the 2.0. The 1.5 got discontinued in favor of the 2.0 The original question here made it sound like some wondered if they were both offered in parallel and people just got to pick which they wanted. Back in the early days of Roadster there was really just the one model to order. With Model S things are different with options of ordering Sig/Non-Sig Sport/non-Sport, etc. Basically in the early days of roadster there was one model with Model S there are multiple paths to different versions.

With Roadster if you wanted a signature 100 version you had to make a firm order with a full deposit. The "patient buyers" list with smaller deposit had to wait longer and ended up absorbing ongoing changes/improvements.

Anyways, the bottom-line is really that things are a bit different now with Model S ordering than they were with Roadster.

 

[TEG]

No, that sounds more like the "surepress" crap that RIM did on the Blackberry Storm. This just gave a slight vibration when I tapped things.

Haptic technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...haptics, is a tactile feedback technology which takes advantage of the sense of touch by applying forces, vibrations, or motions...

I guess, in a nutshell, - (resistive) forces & motions (particularly clicking) is good, but vibrations instead of clicking is somewhat lame.
Not all 'haptics' are created equal.

 

[AnOutsider]

Haptic technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I guess, in a nutshell, - (resistive) forces & motions (particularly clicking) is good, but vibrations instead of clicking is somewhat lame.
Not all 'haptics' are created equal.

I get what you're saying, but I can't imagine using the click over the vibrate (perhaps they did in the earlier models). There's a reason why the "surepress technology" was universally panned.

 

[mgemmell]

Example: CNET TV: Senseg demos prototype touch feedback technology - Nov 2011 - uses an electrostatic field to "modulate friction", no moving parts. Seen recently in this CNET article.

Neat. Worked on similar stuff in HP Labs 20 years ago. Nice to see it hitting the streets. Hope they have good patent lawyers in Senseg... they could do very well.

 

[Doug_G]

It's worth noting that Tesla tends to slipstream in upgrades over time. I bought one of the last 2.0's, and it came with a number of "2.5" upgrades such as the improved seats and PEM. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to do that for the Model S.

 

[vfx]

It's worth noting that Tesla tends to slipstream in upgrades over time. I bought one of the last 2.0's, and it came with a number of "2.5" upgrades such as the improved seats and PEM. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to do that for the Model S.

There were even a few who took delivery of a 2.0 that had a free 2.5 exterior upgrade done later.

 

[vfx]

...
Orders after a certain date would automatically get the 2.0. The 1.5 got discontinued in favor of the 2.0 The original question here made it sound like some wondered if they were both offered in parallel and people just got to pick which they wanted....

At a higher price. I could have bumped to the 2.0 after 2 years of waiting but the upgrades were unknown at that time and an indeterminate wait time (about two weeks it turned out) and $20K more.