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Model S 2020 Impressions

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,414
508
Irvine
Exterior won't change. Interior may change. Probably not for the better if they go along the lines of the M3. Unless you want absolute maximum performance, which there's absolutely no "need" for, then the current Model S is great. The new "Plaid" will probably cost $50,000 more and for what? 3 motors and a 0-60 time of 2.1 seconds instead of 2.4 seconds. Either one will give you a headache! I'll take the current S and 2.4 0-60 MPH, with a fully integrated center screen, a gauge panel screen (which I love) for $50,000 less all day long!!

Insurance cost to insure the Plaid version will likely add significantly to the overall cost of ownership as well. I guess the Plaid will also have some "boy racer" fender flares and vents on it, so for those that want a $100,000 to $150,000 car that looks like it has a bunch of aftermarket tack on additions to it (based on photos of the Plaid cars tested), then to each their own. I personally like the plaid, but reality says I would stick with the more elegant looking standard exterior we currently have. Same reason I didn't upgrade from the Stingray Corvette to the Z06 or ZR1. Those two looked too boy racer to me and for my taste. MS Plaid falls along the same lines.

You can get a wireless charger at any electronics shop, or online for $20. Don't need a new $150,000 car. New charger, lose the center gauge cluster, lose integration of the 17" screen for a slapped on one dangling out from the dash. For non-performance Models, exterior will be what we have now. You'll just get the revised interior, for better or worse!
I really agree with you.....I too, like the exterior elegance of the current edition and do not want the interior of the M3.....I have that already with the wife's car........besides, you can only go the speed limit so what do I need the extra 0-60mph in acceleration and faster than you type car.....I am a very conservative person and that's why I liked the Lexus over the last 15 yrs....I'm gonna stick with what I have ordered.....thanks for your post
 

Jard

Member
Aug 13, 2018
152
87
Maryland
What do you mean by "the old seats" when discussing a 2020 car?

There were a ton of threads about new “thinner” seats without adjustable headrests that started production right around when my car was delivered - late November 2019. Tesla just rolls changes in to the production line when they are ready versus on model year splits.

I do not have those seats. I have adjustable headrests.
 
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SeminoleFSU

Voluntaryist
Apr 5, 2013
1,491
446
Atlanta, GA
You may already have most/all of those “new” features on the car you’re going to have delivered. The wireless phone charger is already listed on the website.

As for “new S around the corner”, I’d take any prognostications on that front with a block of salt. There’s a 2.5 year old thread just a few down from this one talking about how a refreshed S is “imminent”...
Where do you see the wireless phone charger? Is it available for 2018 MS's?
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,352
14,355
California
Where do you see the wireless phone charger? Is it available for 2018 MS's?
It's listed on the specs page now for new cars. Don't see it as a standalone accessory yet.

Screen Shot 2020-01-27 at 11.18.31 AM.png
 
But slow charging compared to Model 3, outdated cooling so track mode would never come. This is what should come to a new Performance S.

There's literally no real-world difference between Raven charging capabilities and a Model 3. Unless you're showing up to one of the handful of V3 superchargers with a warm battery at 5%, the difference is completely meaningless. Sure, lots of things might come to an updated Performance S, there's very little reason to think these kinds of changes are imminent. The original Cyber Truck timeline made it clear to me that the Plaid powertrain is not a "Summer of 2020" thing. I'd expect the same incremental improvements as always that will make me kick myself and wish I had the newest thing, but also I'm confident that I've gotten a lot more satisfaction out of having 4 months with my August build MSP than I would by waiting for wireless charging and thinner seats.

I feel bad for buyers of last year's P100DL who got the shaft when prices dropped, but the narrow price differential between a M3P, Long Range S, and Performance S, along with record profitability, makes me confident that I made the right choice to jump in. If you like the car as it is now, buy it and enjoy it.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,352
14,355
California
There's literally no real-world difference between Raven charging capabilities and a Model 3. Unless you're showing up to one of the handful of V3 superchargers with a warm battery at 5%, the difference is completely meaningless.

This is absurd. If you think an extra 100kw of max charge rate has “literally” no real world difference today and increasingly more so every day in the future, you are engaged in some hardcore confirmation bias right now.
 
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liludiivert

Member
Jan 15, 2020
55
54
Bay Area
This is absurd. If you think an extra 100kw of max charge rate has “literally” no real world difference today and increasingly more so every day in the future, you are engaged in some hardcore confirmation bias right now.
He’s referring to the 200kw charging on the Raven vs 250kw on the M3. A 50kw difference and the fact that these are just peak charge rates that are really only held for a short period of the charge curve at low SOC’s results in the insignificant real world difference. I really wish there was a real world comparison on the two cars charging on V3 to get a better idea of the charge curves and average rate.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,352
14,355
California
He’s referring to the 200kw charging on the Raven vs 250kw on the M3. A 50kw difference and the fact that these are just peak charge rates that are really only held for a short period of the charge curve at low SOC’s results in the insignificant real world difference. I really wish there was a real world comparison on the two cars charging on V3 to get a better idea of the charge curves and average rate.
Since we’re taking “real world”, I don’t think anyone has ever observed anything near 200kw on a raven, even in ideal conditions. Meanwhile a LR 3 seems pretty content to chug away at 230+kw well into the charge curve.
 

liludiivert

Member
Jan 15, 2020
55
54
Bay Area
Since we’re taking “real world”, I don’t think anyone has ever observed anything near 200kw on a raven, even in ideal conditions. Meanwhile a LR 3 seems pretty content to chug away at 230+kw well into the charge curve.
if you take a look at one of bjorns “1000 km challenge” videos where he times these cars on a roadtrip of that length; the raven model x comes in at 20 mins slower than a M3 LR. Thats on a 10hr plus road trip. My guess is the Model S LR with 50 extra miles of range on each charge would have slimmed that even more if not beaten it. Thus my vote on “an insignificant real world difference”. This is all inference yet still a guess until its actually tested by someone. But food for thought until then :)
 
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emmz0r

Senior Software Engineer
Jul 12, 2018
1,266
1,109
Norway
There's literally no real-world difference between Raven charging capabilities and a Model 3. Unless you're showing up to one of the handful of V3 superchargers with a warm battery at 5%, the difference is completely meaningless. Sure, lots of things might come to an updated Performance S, there's very little reason to think these kinds of changes are imminent. The original Cyber Truck timeline made it clear to me that the Plaid powertrain is not a "Summer of 2020" thing. I'd expect the same incremental improvements as always that will make me kick myself and wish I had the newest thing, but also I'm confident that I've gotten a lot more satisfaction out of having 4 months with my August build MSP than I would by waiting for wireless charging and thinner seats.

I feel bad for buyers of last year's P100DL who got the shaft when prices dropped, but the narrow price differential between a M3P, Long Range S, and Performance S, along with record profitability, makes me confident that I made the right choice to jump in. If you like the car as it is now, buy it and enjoy it.

Glad you found a way to cope, but the fact is that the Model 3 battery and cooling solution is superior to S/X.

He’s referring to the 200kw charging on the Raven vs 250kw on the M3. A 50kw difference and the fact that these are just peak charge rates that are really only held for a short period of the charge curve at low SOC’s results in the insignificant real world difference. I really wish there was a real world comparison on the two cars charging on V3 to get a better idea of the charge curves and average rate.

Ben Sullins tried V3 with a brand new Raven, only got 150 kW. I guess that feature is coming Elon-"soon"? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


@ 2:35

Only "good" news is that older S/X might not depreciate as much since there are not much changes. :p
Actually - older S can be P100D with sunroof and other trims that are now taken away.
So given today's situation I'd take a used P100D with sunroof over a new Raven - if you can find one with MCU2.
 
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PhilDavid

Active Member
May 22, 2018
2,552
2,342
Philadelphia
Glad you found a way to cope, but the fact is that the Model 3 battery and cooling solution is superior to S/X.



Ben Sullins tried V3 with a brand new Raven, only got 150 kW. I guess that feature is coming Elon-"soon"? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


@ 2:35

Only "good" news is that older S/X might not depreciate as much since there are not much changes. :p
Actually - older S can be P100D with sunroof and other trims that are now taken away.
So given today's situation I'd take a used P100D with sunroof over a new Raven - if you can find one with MCU2.

Totally agree about the sunroof. What a shame it was discontinued.

Can't wait to drive with the sunroof open in a couple of months.

I too would prefer a P100D with a sunroof over a Raven Performance without a sunroof.
 
Totally agree about the sunroof. What a shame it was discontinued.

Can't wait to drive with the sunroof open in a couple of months.

I too would prefer a P100D with a sunroof over a Raven Performance without a sunroof.
And lose the Raven suspension, more powerful and efficient drive train, faster charging, more powerful computer? For a sunroof that the vast majority rarely use, adds a leak factor and wind noise over the full glass roof? Sorry don’t see the upside. I went from a P85DL to a 2019 raven performance and am immensely pleased. I used my sunroof maybe 5 times in 4+ years. I guess it boils down to what makes you happy.
 

emmz0r

Senior Software Engineer
Jul 12, 2018
1,266
1,109
Norway
And lose the Raven suspension, more powerful and efficient drive train, faster charging, more powerful computer? For a sunroof that the vast majority rarely use, adds a leak factor and wind noise over the full glass roof? Sorry don’t see the upside. I went from a P85DL to a 2019 raven performance and am immensely pleased. I used my sunroof maybe 5 times in 4+ years. I guess it boils down to what makes you happy.

The charging is not faster. Also I think they have a weaker onboard charger in the Ravens as well in US.
You get 150 kW with pre-raven S, and you get 150 kW with Raven S as Ben Sullins demonstrated on a V3 charger.

The new suspension and the increased efficiency? Perhaps, but looking at the price difference between used P100D and a new Raven, is it worth it?
 

tonybelding

Active Member
Aug 17, 2006
1,484
838
Hamilton, Texas
The charging is not faster. Also I think they have a weaker onboard charger in the Ravens as well in US.
You get 150 kW with pre-raven S, and you get 150 kW with Raven S as Ben Sullins demonstrated on a V3 charger.

The new suspension and the increased efficiency? Perhaps, but looking at the price difference between used P100D and a new Raven, is it worth it?

To me, yes. The new suspension and longer range are major selling points to me, while a sunroof (as compared with the full glass roof) is something I'm fairly ambivalent towards. As for charging… Getting rid of the dual charger is a bit of nuisance, but in practical terms we're talking about 70-amp destination chargers in places where you aren't staying overnight (meaning, not at home or at a hotel). You won't run into those too often, and they don't fit into Tesla's strategy going forward. The 72 kW Urban Supercharger should be the replacement for those.

As for V3 charging… That's puzzling. Somebody needs to look into that, and why Ben Sullins wasn't able to get the higher rate. It seems like jumping the gun to look at his one experience and then conclude that V3 supercharging on Model S is a complete fiction and a fraud. (And if it turns out that it is, that could-and-should be a pretty significant scandal for Tesla.)
 

emmz0r

Senior Software Engineer
Jul 12, 2018
1,266
1,109
Norway
As for V3 charging… That's puzzling. Somebody needs to look into that, and why Ben Sullins wasn't able to get the higher rate. It seems like jumping the gun to look at his one experience and then conclude that V3 supercharging on Model S is a complete fiction and a fraud. (And if it turns out that it is, that could-and-should be a pretty significant scandal for Tesla.)

Yes it was quite baffling. Let's hope it was cold battery (in Vegas? lol) or something else. He was basically alone there. Wrong state of charge? Maybe S/X gets 200 kW only between 5-7% :p

I haven't seen a single report on charging speed on V3 with Raven here besides that.

:confused::confused::confused:
 

PhilDavid

Active Member
May 22, 2018
2,552
2,342
Philadelphia
And lose the Raven suspension, more powerful and efficient drive train, faster charging, more powerful computer? For a sunroof that the vast majority rarely use, adds a leak factor and wind noise over the full glass roof? Sorry don’t see the upside. I went from a P85DL to a 2019 raven performance and am immensely pleased. I used my sunroof maybe 5 times in 4+ years. I guess it boils down to what makes you happy.

Unlike you, we use our sunroof all the time. Yes, we would give up the Raven benefits for a sunroof. The sunroof makes drive sto national parks incredible with fresh air flowing around you and you can also let in more light.

What do you mean by a more powerful computer? If you have FSD with a non Raven, you still get HW 3.0.

It's a shame they stopped offering the sunroof as an option.
 
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