I took a look on my usage in the past month or so and so far looks like a MS30 would been more than enough for my needs if they made that 
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Model S 30 KWh Would Have Been Enough
- Thread starter simplesolid
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AMPd
Well-Known Member
Guess you should've ordered the 40kwh model when you had the chance.
George Jetson
Member
I don't know how typical your usage is amongst the forum members here, but it certainly is consistent with the average daily driving distance for the US. That is why IMHO the whole range anxiety and lust for unlimited supercharging is such a red herring.
Frankly anybody who does not road trip can likely use a 60 for everything. People sometimes lose track of just how quickly electric vehicles have gone from 20 mile range nerdmobiles to practical cars. It will be amazing when practical EVs have 400 mile ranges and charge in 5 minutes, but the current stuff is really quite good.
Edit: I'm probably overstating a bit. Let's call a 60 perfect for everything around a metro area. Even the Kia Soul EV in our household with a 27 kW battery has been plenty for all errands and trips around town with no range anxiety at all.
Edit: I'm probably overstating a bit. Let's call a 60 perfect for everything around a metro area. Even the Kia Soul EV in our household with a 27 kW battery has been plenty for all errands and trips around town with no range anxiety at all.
roguenode
Member
That may be true for many, but please keep in mind some of us live where there are cold conditions, snow covered roads, high winds, and large changes in elevation across small distances. Not to mention very few charging opportunities. A normal route I drive has drained my 24KWh leaf in 35 miles.
As an owner of a previous leaf and a volt I have to say that mileage calculation is a bit misleading when the quote those national numbers. A 30 kwh battery may get you around 110-115 miles (based on the new leaf thats a 30kwh this seems about right), but you have to factor in other issues:
1) Bad weather - extreme cold, rain, snow, headwinds, etc. significant drops your range.
2) While us pioneers my drive by the seat of our pants to 1% battery left when we arrive, most people won't You have to buffer some % cushion, further reducing your total range.
3) Battery degradation is real and some companies *coughNissancough* did a poor job and some companies (Tesla) did a great job. But still you have to account for someone owning this car 8+ years and that battery loss cannot affect the normal travel - it still needs to function without reducing were you normally go.
4) while there are some condensed cities, over half of all cities are more sprawled out and some are entirely sprawled out (like here in Texas). These shorter ranges don't work well if your distance from north to south across your metroplex is 60+ miles
5) You cannot assume everyone has a means to charge at their destination, you have to account for round trips
6) the major flaw in these statics is miles per trip. But fewer people today drive to one destination and back home, you stop at school to drop the kids off, get starbucks, pick up something from the grocery store, etc. Those multiple trips add up the miles.
There are plenty of people that can get by with driving only 50 or so miles a day, but add the factors of driving in 18 degree weather with a 40 mile headwind while also making emergency trips to pick up the kids and go to the grocery store with 20% battery degradation and suddenly that 100 mile+ car range looks mighty small and a huge barrier.
1) Bad weather - extreme cold, rain, snow, headwinds, etc. significant drops your range.
2) While us pioneers my drive by the seat of our pants to 1% battery left when we arrive, most people won't You have to buffer some % cushion, further reducing your total range.
3) Battery degradation is real and some companies *coughNissancough* did a poor job and some companies (Tesla) did a great job. But still you have to account for someone owning this car 8+ years and that battery loss cannot affect the normal travel - it still needs to function without reducing were you normally go.
4) while there are some condensed cities, over half of all cities are more sprawled out and some are entirely sprawled out (like here in Texas). These shorter ranges don't work well if your distance from north to south across your metroplex is 60+ miles
5) You cannot assume everyone has a means to charge at their destination, you have to account for round trips
6) the major flaw in these statics is miles per trip. But fewer people today drive to one destination and back home, you stop at school to drop the kids off, get starbucks, pick up something from the grocery store, etc. Those multiple trips add up the miles.
There are plenty of people that can get by with driving only 50 or so miles a day, but add the factors of driving in 18 degree weather with a 40 mile headwind while also making emergency trips to pick up the kids and go to the grocery store with 20% battery degradation and suddenly that 100 mile+ car range looks mighty small and a huge barrier.
BluestarE3
Active Member
The problem is one of perception: the disconnect between what most people actually need on a day-to-day basis vs. what they think they need or is minimally acceptable for range. Tesla was the first to recognize and appreciate this, so they offered a "compelling" car with more range than any other production BEV on the market. The Leaf, e-Golf, Spark EV, Soul EV, etc. should be adequate for many, yet, of these, only the Leaf sold in any significant numbers. For a startup car company with no profitable ICE models to help finance compliance EVs, Tesla had to go above-and-beyond in order to "wow" buyers (even those who would not otherwise have considered an electric car). A perceived "gimped" version of the Model S would not have helped maintain Tesla's image.
George Jetson
Member
I think a big factor why the ICE company EVs aren't gaining traction in numbers is that they scare the c*** out of the dealerships. Their business model is all built around the huge markup on the "book" rates for service. Audi seems to be the lone dinosaur trying to crawl out of the tarpit by sending a clear message to their dealerships that they better adapt to the new reality of car sales and service.
I'm sad that Tesla has decided to discontinue the S60/D. A lot of people are going to be left out of the party who don't want/can't afford an upscale luxury sedan. From a range perspective, the M3 will be more than adequate for a lot of drivers and I certainly was among the first to plunk down my deposit. However, the more I looked at how I actually use my car, it became apparent that it wasn't going to be practical for me to haul around my dogs, bikes, guitars and amp, etc.
Tesla will no longer have a "big car / small battery" option which could appeal to a lot of the ICE drivers out there. Obviously I have no marketing sense whatsoever because Tesla has decided they are giving away the farm on these cars. They also haven't been able to convert the masses at the $70k price point. There isn't enough visual differentiation between the lowly S60 and flagship P100D to placate those worried about the panache of the brand image being diluted.
For my needs, the S60 fits the bill perfectly. I charge the battery for a couple of hours at home every night to give me the miles I need for the next day and I've never drawn it down to less than double digits of range. Yes, I live in a sub-tropical zone city environment, so the demands on my battery aren't very challenging. I suppose that if my needs change over the next few years, I have the flexibility to buy the software upgrade and a supercharger at the SC is only a 10-minute drive from where I work. YMMV.
Everyone's situation is different. I regularly pull into my garage with <20 miles of range after leaving with a 90% charge. On the coldest days of winter I have to charge to 100%. I have no superchargers on my way to/from or near my workplace and no place to charge at work. My 85D is just enough.
deonb
Active Member
I have a 30kWh Leaf and it's more than enough.
We don't even keep it fully charged - Nissan dinged my wife at her last battery inspection for charging it to 100% all the times (as if you have any other choice on a Leaf...), so now she only plugs it in every few days. Even that is fine.
We don't even keep it fully charged - Nissan dinged my wife at her last battery inspection for charging it to 100% all the times (as if you have any other choice on a Leaf...), so now she only plugs it in every few days. Even that is fine.
I would add to this battery longevity. Batteries age by cycle count (among other factors). The smaller the battery pack, the greater the number of cycles for a given mileage.
It makes sense to match the expected lifetime of the battery pack to the expected lifetime of the car chassis. I think this is the real genius of Tesla. Doesn't make sense to skimp on a battery on the onset and compromise the car with low range, low power, and low charging speed - only to have to make a hard decision halfway through the life of the car chassis about whether to spend $$$ on a new pack or junk the car.
Instead, just buy both (60kWh) or all three (90kWh) packs at the onset and enjoy the range, power, and charging speed benefits that it affords - for the entire lifetime of the car.
Nissan never said a word to me. I always charge to 100% but it always get drained to 20% after my commute (though its not being driven that much at all since I got my S60D). I mostly let my parents drive it since it isn't good to leave an EV alone (depression...).
Do the newer leafs not have the setting to limit charging to 80%? I had that set and plugged in to charge everyday without worry of it charging up to 100%.
jelloslug
Active Member
I drove for several years with ~80 mile cars and had no problems with my day to day driving. Now that I have 200+ miles of range, the Tesla is the primary car in our household.
jelloslug
Active Member
A 2011 leaf was just not enough for me in Dallas/Fort Worth Texas. 73 miles of range. in 3 years lost 30% capacity (so really 51 mile of range). And lost another 26% in 3 years on the second battery (54 miles of range). My work is 27 miles one way. That's typical here. There are chargers at work, but its Blink so its $2.50 PER HOUR. If I never stop on the way home AND there is no wind or bad weather AND I don't use any climate control AND I drove it super feather light I could make it to work and back on a single charge running near empty. Forget about visiting my in-laws and sister on the otherside of the metroplex (50+ miles each). I had to quick charge there and back and charge (110v) at their house. I finally came to this conclusion: why should I have to "deal" with a car where i can't run climate control and it cost me an extra hour just to visit family in the same urban area (2 quick chargers) and it usually cost me $3 bucks a day just to make sure I get home comfortably? Yea - not worth it. And a regular consumer will never go to that extreme either.
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