Model S 60 and 60D to be removed

[mikerathbun]

Sorry, that's now how economics works.

You're assuming that since supply of the 60/60D is drained, that demand is going to go up. But demand would only go up at a fixed price on the 60/60D, not at a new higher price of $19k more as your example shows. With the new higher price, demand goes back down, so you'd have to reduce your price.


In any case, I don't see this changing the value [much? at all] of any 60/60D models. Once you drive it off the lot, you depreciated it a ton. Add to that the $7,500 fed tax credit and any applicable state tax credits. And when you go to sell it, you'll be getting pennies on the dollar.

Oh no. I meant that after I upgraded features and bought things like AP and FSD my 66k car became an 85k car. Meaning they are quoting the car costing 66k, but I don't know anyone who didn't pimp it up with expensive upgrades. If I get anything out of it when I decide to sell I will be shocked. I definitely understand luxury car resale economics to know that money is gone.

 

[Max*]

Oh no. I meant that after I upgraded features and bought things like AP and FSD my 66k car became an 85k car. Meaning they are quoting the car costing 66k, but I don't know anyone who didn't pimp it up with expensive upgrades. If I get anything out of it when I decide to sell I will be shocked. I definitely understand luxury car resale economics to know that money is gone.

O sorry, I misread what you meant. My bad.

 

[davinci2017]

I am sure it was planned all along. It was relaunched to give some of the potential buyers willing to spend $50k+ on the Model 3 an option to buy a car right now and to potentially bring in a few more new customers into the "Tesla world" (Like ME ) .

It was ALWAYS a losing proposition for them putting a 75 battery in the 60. The upgrade option is just there as an option, not something they were relying on to make money. Its a buy in, to make the customer enter the Tesla market and hope they stay there. Makes perfect sense to get any last orders in now with a deadline and then fill in the priciest Model 3's first before trickling down to the 35k car probably next year.

A refreshed Model S in 2 years time with the newer battery starting at the current S60 price point but a higher range is very likely.

 

[JohnnyG]

.... It wont be long that they will probably start making models without AP2 and FSD because it never made any sense to me to that they install thousands in hardware and hope people would activate those functions later.

It actually made excellent sense; for a new technology that you rely on data back from the fleet to be able to mature it. All those cars out there with AP2 hardware are running in Shadow Mode and sending data back to Tesla so they can improve on the product and release working updates sooner. If they didn't do this, I imagine it would be years before they could release all the functionality of EAP, let alone even a beta of FSD.
That said, I don't doubt that once they have enough vehicles on the road with AP2 Hardware, and once they get this whole high volume mass production thing down pat, they would no longer put all of the AP2 Hardware in car unless it was purchased with it. They could still make it a SC upgrade though. The cameras and ultrasonic sensors (with all their wiring) aren't that expensive to still put in the car (which is the impossible part to deal with after the fact). It's the NVIDIA Drive PX2 unit that costs a mint, which just mounts under the dash I believe, and could be installed by a SC after the fact.

 

[gabeincal]

MY bet would be the complete opposite in that hardly anyone is upgrading the 60 to 75 and they are losing money putting in the 75 batteries so they are cutting out the model. It wont be long that they will probably start making models without AP2 and FSD because it never made any sense to me to that they install thousands in hardware and hope people would activate those functions later.

What if Tesla has deeper plans than that for AP2. All cars will be able to self drive themselves, whether the owner activated / paid or not. So they can go and charge themselves (or change spots at a charger), they will be able to drive themselves to the service center, etc.

 

[BestRadar]

In a mo

What if Tesla has deeper plans than that for AP2. All cars will be able to self drive themselves, whether the owner activated / paid or not. So they can go and charge themselves (or change spots at a charger), they will be able to drive themselves to the service center, etc.

That is some wishful thinking,

 

[George Jetson]

The "upgrade" path made even less sense once it was revealed that the software limitation produced an actual rating of ~62(?) kWh (rounded down) and the unlimited battery only produces ~73kWh(?) rounded up. Any fence sitters were probably killed off once those testing results were published.

 

[croman]

I see very little need to upgrade. Tesla did this to make more money. If you want an S going forward, you've gotta pony up a lot more money now as compared to when I ordered in early November. First $2,000 and now $6,500 more. $8,500 for basically the same car on a day to day basis and a one time 40 mile boost for road trips (unless you incur serious time delays while charging for taper bands you'll only enjoy the full battery once).

 

[davidc18]

The MX60 was a great deal while it lasted as well.

 

[vigge50]

I see very little need to upgrade. Tesla did this to make more money. If you want an S going forward, you've gotta pony up a lot more money now as compared to when I ordered in early November. First $2,000 and now $6,500 more. $8,500 for basically the same car on a day to day basis and a one time 40 mile boost for road trips (unless you incur serious time delays while charging for taper bands you'll only enjoy the full battery once).

You can see it that way or you can see it as you where lucky to get $8,500 rebate on the car. Tesla choose to offer the 60 with a 75 kWh battery and thought that a certain percentage would buy or upgrade to 75 and in that way they would keep the profit margin they wish. Now later they have found out that very few are upgrading it to 75 wish means that the calculation don't go together. First they higher the price a little hoping it would help but when it didn't they choose to cancel it so that they don't to send out huge amount of batteris that they never get paid for.

 

[somnambule]

I'm not sure I buy the "not enough 60 buyers are upgrading to a 75" theory. If that were the case, couldn't Tesla have figured that out after the 60 had been on the market for 2 or 3 months? Besides, if that were the case, why announce it a month early and allow a bunch of "unprofitable" orders? They could have simply dropped the 60 from the web site one morning unannounced.

The timing makes me think this has more to do with the Model 3. The Model 3 is now close enough (whether in reality or in perception) that Tesla is less able to up-sell Model 3 intenders to an S 60. Plus Tesla needs more separation between the 3 and S when the 3 launches. So the 60 has outlived its usefulness.

 

[Olle]

Two things that are perhaps written between the lines in the comments above:
1. By discontinuing the cheapest version there will be a push in sales for the last month while there is still capacity in the factory.
2. The person who has $68k to spend on a Tesla better get a decked out M3 than a basic S, since the basic S probably cost 3x M3 to manufacture.
The problem is that Tesla won't see the money from potential S60 converted to M3 in a few years since they have to work through the backlog first. Or?

 

[geometro]

Seems odd.
Not sure why they can't have a high end Model 3 cost more than a low end Model S. It's not unheard of to have overlaps.

 

[Olle]

Seems odd.
Not sure why they can't have a high end Model 3 cost more than a low end Model S. It's not unheard of to have overlaps.

Model S cost around 3 times more to make than Model 3, that's why. If you are BMW and have massively production optimized cars you can overlap 3 and 5 series for example. Model S is far from production optimized, never will be. The design criteria for Model S was to make the car work in the first place. Model 3 is just cost cost cost

In the financial reports it looks like average Mode S is about 100k and margin around 25%. Seems like production cost about $75k then. So a bare S 60 customer is a great value if converted to high end Model 3

 

[Spidy]

So are we getting a 17000€ Comfort Package in Germany then to keep the EV for the Model S initiative alive?

 

[jimmyjohn]

I take this news (no more 60) as a concrete / undeniable / unequivocal communication that the Model 3 is coming.... very, very soon.

 

[jelloslug]

The "upgrade" path made even less sense once it was revealed that the software limitation produced an actual rating of ~62(?) kWh (rounded down) and the unlimited battery only produces ~73kWh(?) rounded up. Any fence sitters were probably killed off once those testing results were published.

To be honest, the kWh number is meaningless. As long as you get the added range that you are paying for in the upgrade, it does not matter if it's 3 kWh or 30 kWh.

 

[Chopr147]

MY bet would be the complete opposite in that hardly anyone is upgrading the 60 to 75 and they are losing money putting in the 75 batteries so they are cutting out the model. It wont be long that they will probably start making models without AP2 and FSD because it never made any sense to me to that they install thousands in hardware and hope people would activate those functions later.

I agree that few are upgrading to 75kwh but disagree Tesla is "losing" money. They are just not getting that extra $8500 bump for the upgrade. Here on TMC we have gone over the 60/75 batteries and beat it to a dead horse. The consensus though has been the 60 is a great deal and can be charged to 100% daily.
I would not upgrade for a dime over $500. I would like some kwh cushion but can live w/o it

 

[SageBrush]

The "upgrade" path made even less sense once it was revealed that the software limitation produced an actual rating of ~62(?) kWh (rounded down) and the unlimited battery only produces ~73kWh(?) rounded up. Any fence sitters were probably killed off once those testing results were published.

Sure, and more: I thought that the free improved charging to S75 times was the hidden killer feature in the (upgradable) S60.

 

[Johann Koeber]

Tesla can and probably will sell the CPO 60s as 75s and make up for most of the price differential at this later time.