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Model S 75D Range Anxiety

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Tribaltech, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. Tribaltech

    Tribaltech Member

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    Hi All,

    I am too torn between the 75D and the 90D. The 75D is more than sufficient for my daily commute and day to day needs with its 259 miles "EPA" range. And the best part is that it fits my budget like a glove. But every now and then we visit family which ends up being about 160 miles round trip and there are no destination nor superchargers on the entire route.

    While Tesla/EPA states 259 miles range on full charge on the 75D, I think we can all agree that the EPA numbers with any vehicle are like this unicorn that no one ever sees. So my question is this:

    1) What is the real world range on the 75D if I do mostly highway driving at around 75mph? Moreover...
    2) I am more concerned about this 160-ish mile trip during peak winters here in Michigan. So lets say the scenario is 20 degrees F, 75-80mph average speed on the highway, 80% highway route, and internal heat set to 69 degrees to keep wife and baby toasty.

    In the above scenario what is the real world range that I can expect? This is very important for me since there is no charging option midway and I'd hate to go with 75D to save money and then always have to be concerned over my winter driving trip to family.

    Thank you very much in advance for your advice, thoughts.
     
  2. P85DBeast

    P85DBeast Side tEsLa

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    The 75D will only do 259 miles at 60-65 MPH (I think) but if it was my decision I would go for the 90D just for the added range which is up to 294 Miles!:) But its your choice! Dont own a 75D so cant tell you the real world range on it!
     
  3. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    Use evtripplanner to see if it will fit your needs.

    Driving 75mph will reduce your range. Add cold weather. It is a double whamming.

    I haven't don't winter snow driving but assuming you get the full 75KWh from the battery, you are looking at 468Wh/miles which is pretty high for that 160 miles. Even if you say you only get 70KWh for those 160 miles you are looking at 437.5Wh/miles. Again high but probably realistic.

    I think you should be fine with the 75D for the 160 miles trip. Just don't get lost or do detours. Or get stuck in traffic in the winter. I am also assumin gif it is snowing you won't be going 75-80mph on the highway.

    The only concern might be as your battery ages you might need to go slower.
     
  4. NYEVDriver

    NYEVDriver Member

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    #4 NYEVDriver, Nov 16, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
    I have a 70D and completely agree with you in regards to range. The 70D has a an EPA range of 240 miles but I usually get about 227 miles on a full charge and 206 at 90 percent (Averaging 75MPH). I have a 130 mile/day commute and 1 day per week my commute is @ 215 miles. I am fortunate to have access to (3) SuperChargers during my 200 mile commute and (1) during my 130 mile commute day ( @ 90 percent I usually arrive home with 50 miles remaining. Which really means I'm getting @ 180 miles at 90 percent charge driving 75 miles/hour (mostly highway 35 degrees outside)). I also thought of picking up a 90D and just could not justify paying the additional 15K (Considering the discount that I received for an inventory vehicle). In my opinion if you need the additional range on a regular basis then get the 90D. If not just rent an ICE vehicle on those occasions you need to travel outside of your range. You will have to rent many times to make up the 10K difference. And also consider that there will more than likely be a SuperCharger on that route in the future which will address any range anxiety that you may have now.
     
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  5. Ojas Ray

    Ojas Ray Member

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    So i was in the same boat as you - torn btw the 75d and 90d. I decided to go with the 90D for the following reasons:
    1. Long term better value and investment
    2. Winter driving and conditions in NJ are crazy - and I dont want to be worrying about range
    3. its always better IF YOU CAN MANAGE THE FINANCE to get the 90d

    the numbers are meant for the most IDEAL conditions -- i don't believe any driver stay at 60-65... any wind, rain, will change those numbers
    Michigan - its gonna be cold and snowy

    If you are buying this car for the intention of selling it or trading it back in a few years, i would debate the 75d -- but for me 90d is a keeper at least for 10 years... so i got a bigger loan...
     
  6. RAW84

    RAW84 Member

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    Judging by my P85D's performance in the winter, a 75D is not going to be able to complete that trip in the conditions you've described.
     
  7. byan1232

    byan1232 Member

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    I would only be concerned regarding your 160 mi round trip. The reason I say this is because it depends on the number of days you are spending with your family. Given vampire drain + cold weather, you might be cutting it close. I would get a 90D if your budget allows to be safe. Then again, you could always plug into a 110V while you are at your destination to stop vampire drain + preheat the car.

    I have charged on a 110V from about 30RM to 90%, which is now 255RM for me, and it takes 3 days. If you have access to a 110V while you are at your family's place, than I would say 75D would be sufficient.
     
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  8. Craiggow

    Craiggow Member

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    I too went for the 90D. While it "hurt" to pay that much more, I know I will not be sorry when I exceed the "EPA" range which I often do, even here in sunny California. It is highly unlikely you will ever be sorry for going for the extra capacity, but more than likely later you will be sorry for buying the 75D.
     
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  9. zer0cool

    zer0cool Member

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    If you need to frequently make that 160 trip in MI winter, you need 90D, especially if you plan to go anything faster than 70mph. Basically the rated is at 65mph or so, like under ideal weather conditions. Cold is a huge enemy and SIGNIFICANTLY reduces range. Better be safe than sorry.

    When weather is warmer, you can just reduce speed if you realize you can't make it... I mean worst case you can just drive at 50 mph and that ll extend range a lot. However under COLD weather this doesn't work since warming the car takes LOTs of energy so going slowly doesn't save any power... since the trip now takes more time.

    Basically if you need to make long trips in Northern winter, get long range if you can afford.
     
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  10. Tribaltech

    Tribaltech Member

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    wow! Such helpful responses. Thank you sooooo much guys. It is much appreciated.

    Based on everything I am reading I feel that it would be silly for me to go with the 75D. I don't want to get a car that will constantly give me anxiety everytime we have to visit family. That would just suck! And yes there is a possibility that a SC might come up between here and their place but I cannot bank on that because i dont see anything planned in that regard.

    My wife's argument is that getting a rental everytime to go there is still going to be cheaper than paying the extra monthly premium. While that is good in theory but if we have to do it each and every time it would really start to get old very quickly.

    Ugh! I was hoping to save some money but it seems like 90D is the way to go. Moreover I'd never complain about a faster car so there's always that.

    Thanks a ton everyone, I greatly appreciate it.
     
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  11. Tribaltech

    Tribaltech Member

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    Do you live in one of these wonderful Northern states? If yes, what type of range do you get on your 85D and what does Tesla/EPA says it should be? Just curious. Thanks
     
  12. bmah

    bmah Obscure Member

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    This does not answer your question directly, but have you looked on (for example) Plugshare to see if there are other public charging stations you could use that are close to your family or somewhere along the way? The Tesla map doesn't show every single EV charger that exists, just the Superchargers plus the chargers added with their destination charging program. But you might be able to find something with a network like Chargepoint. Plugshare is pretty good at showing you these other chargers. Also is it possible to charge at your family's place?

    I used to do trips to a place that was far from the Supercharger network (200 mile round-trip, doable in my 85D but didn't leave a lot of juice for driving around at the destination). To deal with this I either used a pay-for-use charger on the evGo network, or a dryer outlet at the destination. Doing this approach might require you to carry some extra adapters, but that's cheaper than the price difference between a 75D and a 90D. Even if you get the larger battery, it's also nice to have multiple ways to charge (belt and suspenders approach).

    Bruce.
     
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  13. Tribaltech

    Tribaltech Member

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    Thanks a ton. I did not know about PLugshare or EVGO. Quick question for you re: the "dryer outlet" situation because I can certainly have access to that. Can I charge through an extension cord plugged into a dryer outlet or does it have to be a direct connection? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm just trying to make sure I cover everything. Thanks
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    That's not how EPA ratings work.
     
  15. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    There's the calculator here: Model S | Tesla

    It'll show you range vs. temperature vs. speed. But it only goes to 70mph, because obviously no one drives a Tesla faster than that.

    That being said, I've gotten over the EPA range of 240 miles on my 70D. In the summer. Driving 75-80mph. It's not that hard. Anything over 80mph, and my range starts to plummet. anything but summer and my range starts to plummet. I have a ton of superchargers in every direction, so the range of the 70D is more than enough here.
     
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  16. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    You can connect a dryer plug with an extension cord if you know what your doing, have appropriate adapters, and make sure everything is sized correctly.

    Depending on the circuit breaker box location and capacity at your destination, it might also be super easy to add a 14-50 outlet under the circuit breaker box.

    Of course, we're all really looking for a reason to get the higher performance.
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    This is factually incorrect. A car is not an investment, it's a depreciating asset. Also, any "add ons" depreciate faster than the car (even if you use Tesla's formula), so the "upgrade" from the 70D to the 90D might cost you $10k now, but you wont recoup anywhere near that when you go sell.

    Just look at the CPO site, the P85s only sell slightly higher than the 85s. But when they were new they cost a lot more.

    Everything else is valid.
     
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  18. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    90D is the way to go to future proof yourself.

    Look at the calculator I linked from Tesla's site. A 75D, in 0F weather, going 70mph, with cabin heat on, can go 194miles. Expect a 5% hit in the first couple years from that 259 EPA number, so you can take 194 miles - 5%*259 rated miles = 181miles.

    With a 75D you'd have a 21 mile buffer, at most, in your winter driving on the trip with no superchargers. Now add 5mph to your speed to go 75mph. Or imagine a 10mph headwind.
     
  19. Craiggow

    Craiggow Member

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    Once you start driving the Tesla, you will never want to drive a rental. In fact once you have your Tesla, you won't want to drive any other car for that matter ;-)
     
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  20. bmah

    bmah Obscure Member

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    You can charge through an extension cord, although I haven't done that personally. You would bring your Univeral Mobile Connector (UMC, comes with your car), and you would probably need to buy an extra adapter (your UMC comes with a couple, but the NEMA 10-30 and NEMA 14-30 that are commonly used for electric clothes dryers are not among them).

    This page has some useful information on charging:

    FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

    For public chargers, you can charge from a Tesla connector (Superchargers and destination chargers), a J1772 connector (adapter comes with the car), or a CHAdeMO connector (need to buy an adapter).

    Personally if money were not too much of an issue I'd opt for the larger battery (I drive an 85D precisely because that's the longest-ranged model that Tesla made at the time). I've never met an EV driver who said "I wish I had a smaller battery pack." :) Then to provide extra flexibility I'd look into the other charging options as well.

    If getting a larger battery isn't economically feasible, then I'd stock up on charging adapters so you can make the best use of charging stations around you.

    Bruce.
     
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