Model S AC Charging (Europe)

[Benjanos]

Greetings all,

This is my first post so apologies for the NOOB question about Model S AC Charging options. I am just looking for confirmation of my assumptions based on various other threads. Note: I live in Europe which may make a difference to the answer.

Pre Facelift Cars
Single charger standard, it accepts 3 Phase @ 16A per Phase. Means 11kW
Dual charger optional, which simply doubles the above. Means 22kW

Facelift Cars
Only one physical charger is ever installed, it has a maximum output of 16.5kW. Means is accepts 3 Phase @ 24 Amps per Phase
Some earlier Facelift cars may have been SW limited to 11kW, but I assume its the same charger limited to 3 Phase 16 A per Phase.

Appreciate any feedback, the reason to clarify is I need to consider my home charging options before I buy a Model S, maybe new or maybe CPO. Also many of the threads on this topic talk about 2 Phase and 3 Phase chargers on Facelift cars (48A vs 72A) which I assume is a US configuration not applicable to Europe?

Meantime thanks for the awesome forum!!

Cheers

 

[Siggy101]

Hi @Benjanos and welcome aboard!

Yep, your statements are just about spot on.

I've never heard of a 2 phase charger, or even 2 phase power for that matter.
US owners use single phase at terrifyingly high amps. Europe has 3 phase at more sensible amps. (biased view )

For home charging, 3 phase at 16A is perfectly adequate and certainly the cheapest option in terms of install cost.
I can suggest you just get a nice, cheap CEE16 red plug installed in your garage by any normal electrician using 2.5mm minimum diameter cabling and you are good to go. Your UMC will be delivered with the red adapter so no real need for the HPWC.
If you are feeling rich/fancy, get a HPWC installed but even then, no real need to go above 16A unless you do crazy high mileage or need to charge more than once a day. On 16A, 3 phase, you can comfortably charge overnight from empty to full (so long as you get the dual or uprated chargers).

If you wish to go over 16A, the install costs tend to go up as this is above most domestic needs thereby often forcing you to upgrade your main board.

 

[Siggy101]

Oooh, I just spotted that you are in Switzerland.
OK, now it gets good because we have it great here.

You may find that you have one of these plugs in your garage already. If so, you can use that with a simple adapter.
You should only run it at 80% of the max rating (10A or 16A depending on if you have the old or new version of the plug).
If you are near Nyon, you are very welcome to come to my place and see how I use it. I'll take you for a spin in the S too if you like...

 

[Benjanos]

Thanks Siggy, I am in Zug but if I head West I will take you up on that offer! Very kind

I currently have a single phase ‘blue’ 16A connector installed to charge the i3, seems I need to swap that to the ‘red’ three phase one. So thanks for confirming, I just didn’t want to change everything to three phase if the Tesla wasn’t going to actually use it. Also totally agree 16A is enough.

Since you are in Switzerland, may I ask you if you bought your Tesla new or as a CPO? I have read all the CPO concerns on this forum (cars delivered in poor condition), but wondered if Switzerland was different.

Cheers!

 

[Siggy101]

I bought my first S new in March 2017.
I am just waiting for delivery of my second S, also new.
I can't comment on CPOs in CH. I used to buy my BMWs at about 2 years old but with a Tesla, I wanted the latest and greatest. There are so many incremental changes each week on the production line that you'll probably want to go new, if funds allow.
FOMO is real!!

Yes, I would suggest you switch your blue commando plug over to the red CEE16. You don't want the big red CEE32 though, that thing is a monster!!
You could charge at 16A on the single phase blue plug. Tesla makes an adapter for the UMC for it (commonly used in the UK and by people on campsites). You just have to calculate your daily consumption and check if single phase 16A will cover it.
Personally, I would recommend going to the 3 phase CEE16 for real world use. In winter, you will want to precondition the car and single phase 16A will not provide enough juice for that (6kW is needed for the heater!!) so you would start pulling juice from the battery as well as the wall.

Come on down to Suisse Romande for a weekend... we don't bite!

 

[Yggdrasill]

I currently have a single phase ‘blue’ 16A connector installed to charge the i3, seems I need to swap that to the ‘red’ three phase one. So thanks for confirming, I just didn’t want to change everything to three phase if the Tesla wasn’t going to actually use it. Also totally agree 16A is enough.

You don't need to do anything, really. I have a 16A blue plug, and I charge with an adapter to 32A blue plug. You can adjust the current down to 16A in the car, so you don't blow the fuse, and the car will automatically remember this setting based on location. I haven't done anthing with this setting for a year, and it stil works perfectly.

If you don't want to adjust the current in the car, an adapter from 16A blue to 16A red will do the same thing. Like 16A1R here: Adaptere til Tesla

 

[Yggdrasill]

You could charge at 16A on the single phase blue plug. Tesla makes an adapter for the UMC for it (commonly used in the UK and by people on campsites). You just have to calculate your daily consumption and check if single phase 16A will cover it.

I'm pretty sure Tesla only makes a 32A blue UMC adapter, not a 16A version. These plugs are different sizes. So you also need a third party adapter.

I haven't seen a 16A blue -> 32A blue adapter for sale anywhere (I made mine), only the 16A blue -> 16A red I linked to, and also 16A blue -> Schuko are sold pretty much anywhere.

 

[Benjanos]

All good feedback, thank you very much!

 

[Yggdrasill]

I just realized you may have an even simpler solution:

Use the Type 2 charging cable you use to charge the i3 to also charge the Tesla!

It's not certain this will work, as there are some compatibility issues between different cars/brands, but it's quite likely to work.

 

[Benjanos]

Hi Yggdrasil,

Indeed! What i already have will probably work, the setup I have is the 16A single phase outlet with an EVSE from “Ratio Electric”. It’s this device here in this link (hopefully the link works).

EV Portable Charger Typ 2 auf 16A/230V CEE

It states it will work with Tesla S & X. But.... now I have a little more information from this forum, plan is to change my outlet to 16A three phase and buy an equivalent EVSE device supporting 3 phases.

I have “Off Peak / Half Price” electricity from 11PM until 7AM, so 11kW should mean I can fully recharge within this time slot even if the car is quite empty.

Now I have solved that problem, I just need to go buy a car! Siggy says buy new, maybe that’s the way, but guaranteed the minute I buy a brand new car, Tesla will update the Model S with ‘must have’ new things (like door bins!!) and I will miss out

 

[widodh]

I would always recommend a Tesla Wall Connector. It's the safest and best solution to safely charge a Model S.

You can connect it on 3x16A or 3x32A where the Model S will draw a maximum of 3x17A.

 

[Rocky_H]

I've never heard of a 2 phase charger, or even 2 phase power for that matter.

This is a very U.S.-centric forum in a lot of ways. Where some people say the words "2 phase", they are more properly referring to "split phase", where residential electricity in the U.S. has access to 120V and 240V.

US owners use single phase at terrifyingly high amps. Europe has 3 phase at more sensible amps. (biased view )

Here's the biased view on the other side. You guys use terrifyingly high volts. The U.S. reasoning (perception?) on this is the distinction of regular consumer household outlets where people frequently plug things in, versus more professionally used and infrequently accessed outlets and devices. Our household outlets are 120V 15A circuits. It's very low power, so seen as more "safe" than the 240V household outlets used throughout most of the rest of the world. People plug and unplug phone chargers and lamps and laptops and toasters into 240V outlets? Shocking! But high volt and amp devices like for ovens or clothes dryers or electric car charging are not plugged and unplugged by normal people most of the time, so they are seen as an appropriate use of high amps, since people aren't going to come in contact with it.

 

[Benjanos]

Is now the moment we debate 50Hz versus 60 Hz? Haha just joking, both voltage systems probably have advantages, whatever ‘gets her done’ I say. In the end all EV drivers are looking for the same thing, lots of DC. Maybe Edison was right after all? Ops, again just joking..

 

[Candleflame]

Is now the moment we debate 50Hz versus 60 Hz? Haha just joking, both voltage systems probably have advantages, whatever ‘gets her done’ I say. In the end all EV drivers are looking for the same thing, lots of DC. Maybe Edison was right after all? Ops, again just joking..

not really. the european system is pretty much superior in every way. That is of course because we established the grid after america. 2nd time is always better.

 

[Rocky_H]

not really. the european system is pretty much superior in every way. That is of course because we established the grid after america. 2nd time is always better.

You just say that because you're from Australia, and Road Warrior was better than Mad Max. But there's also Highlander 2 (shudder)

 

[Benjanos]

Just closing this one out. 3 Phase complete all the way to the front gate. His majesty is happy to 'soak up' from three phases instead of one...

 

[Candleflame]

You just say that because you're from Australia, and Road Warrior was better than Mad Max. But there's also Highlander 2 (shudder)

Nah I'm German. Australia uses the European System and is in most matters very european anyway - they never had an independence day so until the 90s were technically still a UK colony.

 

[Siggy101]

Just closing this one out. 3 Phase complete all the way to the front gate. His majesty is happy to 'soak up' from three phases instead of one...

View attachment 331567

Looking Good @Benjanos. You can't beat a good old CEE16 plug for the best bang to buck ratio when installing a charging solution for a Tesla.
So you went with a CPO then? A P85D is gonna be great in the winter here. I'm collecting my second S tomorrow afternoon!! (another Obsidian Black but 100D this time instead of the 90D)

 

[Benjanos]

Hi Siggy101, yes went for a CPO car despite "potential risk". Car is fantastic and experience we very good with Tesla. There are some pictures here in this thread if you are interested..

To CPO or not?

Hey best of luck with the new car tomorrow, can imagine its particularly exciting to get a brand new one! Meantime thanks for your guidance above on the CEE16, its exactly what was needed ;-)