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Model S Accident/Fire

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Why has it taken so long for the "large metal object" to be identified. I mean, surely it didn't disappear did it? It's either on the side of the road, or still stick inside the car somewhere. Why can't somebody look and tell us all what object it was. I think that is a significant part of this story and shouldn't be left out.

I ran over one of these in my previous car:

scaffold foot.jpg


it put 7 or 8 little punctures in the underside as it 'rolled' along under the car, before settling near the rear axle. That said, it wasn't particularly large, and just merged in with all the other detritus on the side of the road, it took me a long time to find it. It looks like this Model S drove/coasted for some time after the incident, so it might take a while to find the offending 'metal object' (although, since Tesla have described it as that, you'd think they would know what it was).
 
He actually did. He explained how his knowledge of the battery vent systems was consistent with the flame pattern in the video. What more do you want from him?

You, on the other hand, wrote a dozen posts questioning folks' conclusions derived from knowledge + analyzing tesla's statements + analyzing the video. As initial theories (12V, brake fire, collision) evolved into battery pack involvement, you became alarmist and defensive. Cap Opp and others who shared their knowledge and responded to questions were tremendously helpful. However, I missed your generally helpful comments and extensive knowledge about Tesla on this thread.

I apologize to pfq for picking on this post, nothing personal intended but this is what I wanted to say:

Alright folks, 400 posts of speculation means it's easy to get heated....let's just have everyone cool off for a while, OK?
 
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I apologize to pfq for picking on his post, nothing personal intended but this is what I wanted to say:

Alright folks, 400 posts of speculation means it's easy to get heated....let's just have everyone cool off for a while, OK?

Nigel I agree--personally I would lock the thread as it's going no where.

Once the official report is out, then we can all start up again.
 
Incorrect.
1. I can make all kinds of assertions and whether they later turn out to be fact has no relationship to whether there was evidence to support those assertions at the time I made them. For example, suppose I said the stock will close between $7000 and $7001 on January 27th, 2020. Now suppose it actually does that. Would you be willing to say "the evidence on 2013/10/03 supports the stock being between $7000 and $7001 on 2020/07/27"? I wouldn't.
2. I didn't deny your hypothesis. I said I didn't see facts supporting it.

I would have to back you up. The first point where anyone posted anything that even suggests a battery was involved was here, which came after the post CapOp was referring to:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...aused-the-fire?p=456259&viewfull=1#post456259
That was right after I jumped in to the discussion and I remember going through the thread before then and no one had any evidence it was the main battery (I asked for it too as did many people before me). The most probable theory seemed to be the 12V one at that point.

I went backwards in the quote chain between you and CapOp and it seems his original theory was the 12V battery.
Only if it's confirmed that the fire was a result of a cascade failure of the main battery pack. Evidence so far is consistent with that, but it is also consistent with some other possible causes as well.

Right now, I am leaning towards it being a problem with the 12v battery causing the fire (assuming its a Tesla mechanical failure, as opposed to some unrelated black swan event) which is not nearly as bad as a problem with the main pack, but will still cause a significant short term run on the stock I think.

Then it evolved into the theory of "cascading failure" of the pack which many people disagreed with (as that means the fire spread from module to module based on the technical definition of that term). When asked for evidence, he said it was speculation based on Tesla not making a statement.
Given that we have a cause (metallic debris) and a plausible effect (a cascading failure from a pack that was ripped open), I'll take that and run with my speculation in the absence of a statement by Tesla otherwise.
 
As I mentioned elsewhere I'd consider a cascade failure to mean a number of other cells that were not physically damaged by the initial impact suffering subsequent failure. If a damaged cell causes an undamaged cell to catch fire, and then that cell causes another undamaged cell to catch fire, that is a cascade event. We can debate if it's a catastrophic cascade event or not, but since in this case it seems to have cascaded enough to catch the vehicle on fire I can see how the term might be appropriate.
 
One question: Where is the car now!? Who exactly is looking at it?!
Ok that's 2 questions, both of which have real, discernible answers. Anybody know?

and a comment: I have seen (and occasionally hit) some very scary things on the freeway. The forces produced in a collision, just for an instant, can be almost unbelievably extreme. The world is not a safe place.
Ok that's 3 comments :rolleyes: ML
 
The video just confirms more why I bought the car it is really safe. There are many people who would not have walked away from a fire like that happening to their vehicles. The car detected a problem itself and told the driver to pull over how many other vehicles do this?
 
I've followed all of the relevant news stories over that last couple days and here's my conclusions (in no particular order):

1) A Tesla would be a poor vehicle choice for running over violent motorcycle gangs in NYC as a motorcycle could be considered a "large piece of metal" on the roadway.'

2) Just like the federal government, a Tesla is never really FULLY shutdown until the flames are put out. Same could be said of this thread, coincidentally.

3) A Concorde also struck a large piece of metal resulting in a fuel tank puncture and fire. So Boeing would be wise to mount its batteries underneath like Tesla so pilots would have time to safety pull off the runway instead of crashing into a hotel.

4) The frunk should not be your first choice of location to carry ice cream or candles. However, if first packed with palm fronds, it could be a great location for transporting a pig.

5) Rated range can decrease suddenly.
Thanks for this! Very funny after this long serious thread.

And lets not forget that Hollywood is extremely thankful for this video. It shows that when ICE cars are gone, and they can no longer do car explosion scenes... they can still do EV fire scenes with the actors dramatically walking away from the burning wreck in slow motion.
 
No that is not the same problem. Not even remotely related. There was some smoking due to some 12V wires getting worn. Tesla quickly did a voluntary recall to fix that.

Please stay on topic.

it is on the topic don't get panic.

You can see they're focusing the fire extinguisher, around the front right wheel well right where the 12v aux battery.. it is old recall and fixed.
 
As I mentioned elsewhere I'd consider a cascade failure to mean a number of other cells that were not physically damaged by the initial impact suffering subsequent failure. If a damaged cell causes an undamaged cell to catch fire, and then that cell causes another undamaged cell to catch fire, that is a cascade event. We can debate if it's a catastrophic cascade event or not, but since in this case it seems to have cascaded enough to catch the vehicle on fire I can see how the term might be appropriate.
With this definition, I can agree.
 
San Jose Mercury News just called me. I give them my take, basically my posts in this one and the short term thread.

What I would really like to hear is that the San Jose Mercury News sent a reporter or three up to Seattle to head out to the freeway where the incident took place and comb through the side of the road and find the metal object and take pictures and go find the car and take pictures and dig up actual facts and details. I am surprised that apparently no news organization (especially local Seattle ones -- what's their excuse?) has sent anyone out to look around. This is what reporters are supposed to do, and there is clearly interest in this story given it's about a Model S. I would be delighted to learn that this is not the case.
 
Conversation with a friend at work:
brianman said:
One person in the car, he hit a projectile from a car in front.
The car told him to pull over and get out. Driver did so and called 911.
Car later caught fire.
No injuries, passenger cabin never affected.
The car told him to pull over and get out? That's.... awesome.

They should 1) Give the guy a new car in return for the opportunity 2) interview him and broadcast it and take ads out and everything.
Because wow - that's incredible.
It's like your dad's in the car with you.
brianman said:
As a customer/owner - giving him a new car would be great PR
As a stockholder - I'm concerned about the precedent, etc.
Well, combine it with a documentary about what happened, recreate the car telling him to get out, etc. Don't need to publicize the free new car maybe.
brianman said:
How about something better....
Tesla offers to buy his wreck for exactly what he paid for it.
As a research purchase.
Or maybe as a show piece, if the cabin wasn't touched.
brianman said:
The net effect is that he's back on the road quickly with a loaner purchase if he so chooses. Which gives them the opportunity to show that given the choice he would buy the car again...and did.
Tesla needs to put that car on a flatbed and drive it around the country showing it off to people, especially including the part where the car told the driver to get out.
Sorry to harp on that one thing, but that's just really, really cool.