What are the technical hurdles to adapting the Model S to receive a battery pack with 2170 cells instead of 1680? Is it possible for current cars to be retro-fit should these packs become available? To me, it seems the height difference could be compensated by some combination of a new battery cover and OTA updates to the air suspension. I also assume the cooling system could be modified. What about the battery control hardware and software? What are the other challenges that would need to be overcome?
Model S and 2170 battery...
- Thread starter Dr_BTF
- Start date
I don’t think there are any real technical hurdles.
But Tesla would have to devote engineering effort to developing a brand new pack design, and the S/X would then share the same limited supply of 2170 cells. I don’t think it makes sense for Tesla right now.
The one joker in the deck is Plaid. Elon said Plaid cars will have higher capacity packs, so unless Tesla is on the edge of fielding a significant chemistry improvement, they will be designing new packs for Plaid cars anyway, and it might make sense to switch cells at that point.
But Tesla would have to devote engineering effort to developing a brand new pack design, and the S/X would then share the same limited supply of 2170 cells. I don’t think it makes sense for Tesla right now.
The one joker in the deck is Plaid. Elon said Plaid cars will have higher capacity packs, so unless Tesla is on the edge of fielding a significant chemistry improvement, they will be designing new packs for Plaid cars anyway, and it might make sense to switch cells at that point.
It's a lot like a hand transplant. Are the functionalities the same? Sure.
But there are so many intricacies, such as the bones being the right size and position that "doing it" is one thing, but "optimizing it" is completely another
But there are so many intricacies, such as the bones being the right size and position that "doing it" is one thing, but "optimizing it" is completely another
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Because it’s newer so people automatically assume better.
It really chaps my ass knowing there are cars out there driving around with batteries 5mm taller than mine.
freeewilly
Member
I don't think the difference between 2170 and 18650 are just size, the battery chemistry is different, too.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
There’s not much if any evidence to suggest that. If Tesla/Panasonic made a chemistry breakthrough in one form factor, why would they not use the same in the other?
ZAKEEUS
Member
Well something about the Model 3’s battery allows it to charge a lot faster than a S or X. I think that’s all people really want. If they could get it to fit in an 18650, nobody would care if the cells were different.
Xenoilphobe
Active Member
You haven't heard about the new solid state battery with 700 miles of range and 1 minute recharging? 
Sounds like BS. Future batteries, coming soon: Charge in seconds, last months and power over the air
Sounds like BS. Future batteries, coming soon: Charge in seconds, last months and power over the air
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Pack cooling, module configuration, charge port / bus amperage capacity, etc etc etc - there are a hundred different reasons why a car that was engineered and designed nearly 10 years ago might not be able to take a 250kw charge.
While I generally agree that charge speed is the performance spec most people are after when they moan about 2170 cells, there’s a non-zero percentage of folks who will never be satisfied because they’ve already internalized the idea that one is “better” and they don’t have it.
Cheburashka
Active Member
2170 means 21mm x 70mm battery
18650 is 18mm x 65mm in size
Unclear what cell size has to do with benefits.
18650 is 18mm x 65mm in size
Unclear what cell size has to do with benefits.
Last edited:
18x65mm
2170 has more filling for the same amount of ‘wrapper’. Since the filling is less dense then the wrapper, you get more storage for the same weight. It’s easier to cool the smaller cells but the 3 has a better battery cooling system overall and thus one of the biggest enablers of its higher charge rate.
2170 has more filling for the same amount of ‘wrapper’. Since the filling is less dense then the wrapper, you get more storage for the same weight. It’s easier to cool the smaller cells but the 3 has a better battery cooling system overall and thus one of the biggest enablers of its higher charge rate.
It has nothing to do with size. It has to do with future-proofing the Model S. If Panasonic decides to stop prodcuing 18650 cells, current Model S owners will be screwed if their battery pack needs to be replaced.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
That’s what she said!
Of all the possible reasons, this one seems particularly silly. At this point there are billions of cellls in this form factor in circulation. So long as there is a demand for them, someone will produce them.
I’m not sure that’s realistic concern this year. Model 3 production has been limited by 2170 cell production capacity, and Tesla is still buying 18650s in large numbers for S/X production.
