Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Personally I think the full side view of the M3 is one of its best.
Dan
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Personally I think the full side view of the M3 is one of its best.
Dan
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Good looking family photo ...
Very cool pictures. Sorry, but I think the Model ☰ is higher than the Model S (look at the picture below) on the GIF they have the same level.
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garsh
Re Member
One other thing I noticed with this comparison is that the roofline shape is the same between the Model 3 and S, at least until the S's hatch opening where the S roof stretches out and gets very slightly longer. On the 3, the roofline shape dives into the nose a little lower. (It's kind of hard to see in these pictures because of the lighting and colors, but holding a mouse curser or a fingernail over the windshield helps.)
Now look at the steering wheel and front seat. Obviously we don't know how tall each driver was but the Model 3 wheel and seat are a lot closer to the front windshield. Looking back at some reveal test drive videos, it looks like the seatbacks were in line with the B pillar, as in this image. The side mirrors are also more forward in the Model 3, so the combination of these hints might mean that the driver sits about 6" closer the windshield than in the S.
What does this mean? Better view over the front (as others have mentioned), probably more efficient use of interior volume and easier entry/exit from the front seats (especially with the slightly larger doors).
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Now look at the steering wheel and front seat. Obviously we don't know how tall each driver was but the Model 3 wheel and seat are a lot closer to the front windshield. Looking back at some reveal test drive videos, it looks like the seatbacks were in line with the B pillar, as in this image. The side mirrors are also more forward in the Model 3, so the combination of these hints might mean that the driver sits about 6" closer the windshield than in the S.
What does this mean? Better view over the front (as others have mentioned), probably more efficient use of interior volume and easier entry/exit from the front seats (especially with the slightly larger doors).
View media item 114951
Agreed! I love the side view and back view, and even an angled front view, but the view directly from the front is going to have to grow on me. I don't think it is even the "duck bill" and I can't quite place what is throwing me off. I think it is how short the top of the hood is compared to the top of the roof line. It looks kind of like a bubble I guess.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
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I did a pixel comparison between Model S and Model 3, and it seems as if the length of the Model 3 is about 466 cm / 183,5 inches, which is 93,8% shorter than the Model S.
I might be wrong, as the back seat is hard to measure perfectly from the pictures, but it also seems as if the Model 3 has a longer middle section than the Model S - measured between the steering wheel and the back seat.
I might be wrong, as the back seat is hard to measure perfectly from the pictures, but it also seems as if the Model 3 has a longer middle section than the Model S - measured between the steering wheel and the back seat.
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Off course I mean 93,8% of the length of Model S.
Based on this (Tesla Model 3: Will it Be a Good Family Car? - Motor Trend) article from Motor Trend, the total length of the Model 3 in my comparison picture seems to be pretty accurate, as they found it to be 184,1 inches long.
What I think is interesting is the fact that both the length (184 inches / 467 cm) and width (74,2 inches / 188,5 cm) of the Model 3 will exceed the BMW 3-series. The width also exceeds the width of the Audi A4 and the length is only two inches shorter (Audi A4 2017 is 186,1 inches).
The Model X moved the dashboard and hence the front doors forward a bit from the Model S. It looks like they continued this practice with the Model 3. It makes the length of the nose a little shorter and a bit more space in the passenger compartment.
Elon was wrong about the size of the car. He had said it would be about 20% smaller than the Model S, but it's more like 5-8% smaller. If it was 20% smaller, it would be a compact sedan, right in the same dimensional range as the BMW 3 series or the Subaru Legacy sedan. Instead the dimensions put it right in there with a midsize sedan. The dimensions are very close to the Ford Fusion, with a slightly longer wheelbase than the Fusion, but a little shorter overall. Tesla likes to push the wheels to the corners of the cars more than a lot of auto makers.
For people who were looking for a compact sedan, that's bad news, but midsize sedans are the best selling sedan niche in the US. That's pits the Model 3 head to head with the Camry, Accord, Fusion, and Malibu. I know people are comparing it to other BEVs or luxury cars right now and it will carry a luxury car price, but I think it will have the biggest impact on the family midsize sedan market. Tesla has shown with the Model S/X that people will stretch their budgets to pay the extra money. The Model 3 will likely cost more than a similarly equipped Camry or Accord, but I think there will be many who will stretch the budget for the better car.
Elon was wrong about the size of the car. He had said it would be about 20% smaller than the Model S, but it's more like 5-8% smaller. If it was 20% smaller, it would be a compact sedan, right in the same dimensional range as the BMW 3 series or the Subaru Legacy sedan. Instead the dimensions put it right in there with a midsize sedan. The dimensions are very close to the Ford Fusion, with a slightly longer wheelbase than the Fusion, but a little shorter overall. Tesla likes to push the wheels to the corners of the cars more than a lot of auto makers.
For people who were looking for a compact sedan, that's bad news, but midsize sedans are the best selling sedan niche in the US. That's pits the Model 3 head to head with the Camry, Accord, Fusion, and Malibu. I know people are comparing it to other BEVs or luxury cars right now and it will carry a luxury car price, but I think it will have the biggest impact on the family midsize sedan market. Tesla has shown with the Model S/X that people will stretch their budgets to pay the extra money. The Model 3 will likely cost more than a similarly equipped Camry or Accord, but I think there will be many who will stretch the budget for the better car.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
20% smaller by volume... and it is nearly 20% smaller than the model S by volume as Elon Musk had said.
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As far as I know, Musk never specified in what dimension the 3 would be smaller than the S, but it is now clear to me that he did not mean in exterior dimensions. Since the volume of a sphere changes by the cube of the radius (yes I know that cars are not spheres) it is apparent that the 20% figure Musk stated is the volume difference, not an external dimension difference.
Interestingly, the 3 interior (cabin) volume looks to be a higher proportion of the overall vehicle volume than in the S.
Interestingly, the 3 interior (cabin) volume looks to be a higher proportion of the overall vehicle volume than in the S.
geoffreak
Driving My Model 3
As a driver of a Subaru Legacy, I assure you it is a mid-sized car. It is actually the largest mid-sized car at the moment (though only by a tiny bit). The supposed dimensions of the Model 3 (184") put it 4 inches shorter than my car (188").
I think you're confusing the Legacy and the Impreza (which is Subaru's compact sedan).
No, the Model 3 isn't competing against the mid-sized segment. It is still a luxury car and is competing in the same price point as the Audi A4 and BMW 3 series in the luxury compact segment. Cars are broken by segment by external dimensions, but if you're trying to argue that the interior space is how cars should be segmented, then you should be comparing at least against the luxury mid-sized segment with cars like the Audi A6 which starts at $42k.
Given what it offers at the base price point (and might offer when upgraded), I think the Model 3 is going to undercut the competition both in price and features. Tesla wants to show with this car that ICEs simply can't command the same value as a BEV. They may be starting in the luxury segment, but they will go downstream.
I will say that I'm definitely one of the people that would otherwise stay in the mid-sized market had it not been for Tesla. For me, it's not a question of cost, but value. The ICE luxury cars simply don't offer enough to me to warrant their cost.
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By volume is the only rational answer. A reduction of 20% volume would be an average of 7.2% reduction in each dimension. The length is reduced 6%, the height is 0.9% less, the width 4% less, and the wheelbase 3% less. If the car was a rectangular (which it obviously isn't), it would be 89.4% the size of the Model S. Because of the way they extended the roof-line further back, the interior volume is probably much closer to the Model S than that.
Yup, you're right. And my SO has an Impreza wagon too (which is close to the same size of a BMW 3 series).
I am going by the exterior dimensions published by Motortrend after they had a day with the Model 3. Those dimensions put it in the midsized category, not the compact sedan category.
The Model 3 is priced like a luxury sedan, mostly because Tesla can't make cars as cheap as other car companies yet (they don't have the volume to get the best prices on parts) and batteries will still be more expensive than ICE components for a while yet. What I'm saying is the Model 3 will be drawing a lot of people who are midsized sedan buyers now to fork over more money for the better car. People who may be able to afford a BMW or and Audi (even if it stretched their budget), but would never buy one.
That's what happened with the Model S. Studies of Model S buyers have found that over 50% of Model S buyers never bought a car that cost more than $60K before buying a Model S. In my case, I'm going from a car with a Kelly Blue Book value of $2K to $100K. The car cost me $22K new 24 years ago.
This is awesome! but doesn't the model 3 have an extra bar above the driver? aka not the panoramic windshield like the MX?
Actually, cars ARE segmented by interior space. At least by the US Gov't. There are many car classification schemes around the world. The Chinese do use vehicle length, the Japanese use engine size and the Europeans don't have a formal classification scheme.
The US uses interior volume. Vehicle size class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So while the length and price of the Model 3 will be similar to the entry-luxury compact sedans (3-series, A4, C-Class, ATS, etc), its interior space (passenger, trunk and frunk) will likely be a class larger...mid-size.
This is the big take-away from the size view: the passenger room is similar in length and height to the Model S. With the smaller overhangs, the cargo room is obviously smaller than the S.
geoffreak
Driving My Model 3
Good to know! Interestingly enough my Subaru Legacy is at 119.6 cu.ft. whereas the Model S is at 120 cu.ft. According to Wikipedia, a large car is ≥ 120 cu.ft. so it's funny to know how arbitrary the cutoff is. This really makes me understand why the Model S isn't as tall inside as my Legacy - it's been squished down to have a larger length and width with nearly the same volume.
I was originally thinking that the Model 3 would be able to actually pass midsize interior space and go into the large territory, but now that I understand how close the Model S is to the cutoff, I would agree with other posters saying it will likely be midsize.
Though, I will add that the cutoff for midsize is only ≥110 cu.ft. so it is still very possible that the Model 3 is below this. If the Model 3 is only 9-10% smaller than the S by volume, that would put it firmly into compact territory.
It may still slip into the midsized range. 90% of 120 cf is 108 cf, just below the midsized cutoff. If the interior volume is just 91.6% of the Model S, than it will be right on the line of a midsized car.
Though according to this:
How Much Space IS There Inside A 2012 Tesla Model S Anyway?
The 120 cf was without counting the frunk. It may have also overlooked the under floor storage area that is filled by the foldable jump seats if they are installed. That's a few more cubic feet on cars without the jump seats (which is well over 90% of the fleet). The official passenger volume with the back seats up is 94 cf. The cargo space behind the back seat is 26 cf (still unclear if that includes under floor storage or not) and the original 120 cf rating did not include the frunk, which was 5.3 cf on the rear wheel drive cars, but is now much less than that.
Tesla officially says the cargo space is 31.6 cf with the back seats up (26.3 behind the seats and 5.3 frunk).
The EPA rates all Tesla Model S (RWD and dual motor) as 94 cf passenger and 26 cf cargo. On top of that, they rate the Model X with the same stats! It looks like they got over the 120 cf of space and just gave up any more calculations.
The calculations for the Model 3 will probably get more attention because it will be somewhere in the compact to midsized range and it will be more important to measure accurately.
Though according to this:
How Much Space IS There Inside A 2012 Tesla Model S Anyway?
The 120 cf was without counting the frunk. It may have also overlooked the under floor storage area that is filled by the foldable jump seats if they are installed. That's a few more cubic feet on cars without the jump seats (which is well over 90% of the fleet). The official passenger volume with the back seats up is 94 cf. The cargo space behind the back seat is 26 cf (still unclear if that includes under floor storage or not) and the original 120 cf rating did not include the frunk, which was 5.3 cf on the rear wheel drive cars, but is now much less than that.
Tesla officially says the cargo space is 31.6 cf with the back seats up (26.3 behind the seats and 5.3 frunk).
The EPA rates all Tesla Model S (RWD and dual motor) as 94 cf passenger and 26 cf cargo. On top of that, they rate the Model X with the same stats! It looks like they got over the 120 cf of space and just gave up any more calculations.
The calculations for the Model 3 will probably get more attention because it will be somewhere in the compact to midsized range and it will be more important to measure accurately.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Good catch ... the Model 3 does have the extra support bar above the driver as seen in the C&D photo
New view of Tesla Model 3 glass roof from above - Tesla Models | Tesla Motors | Tesla Model S | Tesla Model X | Tesla Model 3
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Good effort! The car's proportions need work though. Look at the size of the body vs the canopy, and especially how far front the windshield is with respect to the front wheel. It looks like a different car.
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e-FTW
New electron smell
Not trying to take this off-topic, and feel free to PM me instead, but may I ask why? This is something I have been struggling with (the American lack of interest in hatchbacks).
