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Model S and coasting, increasing the comfort for passengers

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Coasting and minimizing the use of braking (whether from regen or brake pads) is the most efficient under any scenario. Braking = energy wasted. Less energy is wasted when the braking makes electricty instead of heat and brake dust, but it still loses some energy.

Being able to switch between coasting and drive ought to be quick and easy. Too bad the only ways to do it are move around, but never quite being able to hold the sweet spot (with lots of fatiguing micro decisions) or to play with the toggle of the gear lever in and out out of neutral.

Perhaps auto pilot will eventually have a hypermiler mode which will make full use of coasting as much as possible.

+1 here, and to the OP as well.

Even if most people are satisfied with carefully tensing thier foot to get "close enough" to zero power, others (like myself) prefer to get *exactly* zero power with no input from their foot.

It is a shame to have to shift to neutral to get this however, since that can be less safe under several circumstances.

GSP
 
I thought I agreed with OP 20 posts ago.

I have said this many times in Nissan Leaf forum:

No regen is the best regen, except when braking.

If an EV could somehow automatically simulate N when foot off the gas pedal and do regen when foot on the brake pedal - that would the ideal scenario to garner most efficiency.

Somehow this is very hard to make people understand both here and the Nissan forum. Folks go on a tangent on how driving in N is bad, illegal and such and completely miss the point.
 
+1 here, and to the OP as well.

Even if most people are satisfied with carefully tensing thier foot to get "close enough" to zero power, others (like myself) prefer to get *exactly* zero power with no input from their foot.

It is a shame to have to shift to neutral to get this however, since that can be less safe under several circumstances.

GSP

I would agree that if there were a button to turn regen on/off easily accessible from the steering wheel, it would be more efficient to coast for a while, and then turn regen on, in the case of a red light way off in the distance -- but I don't think it's worth the potential danger of shifting into neutral in the absence of a properly designed feature.
 
Even if most people are satisfied with carefully tensing thier foot to get "close enough" to zero power, others (like myself) prefer to get *exactly* zero power with no input from their foot.

I seem to be missing something here.

Lots of folks speak of the difficulty of matching zero power or tensing their foot, but in reality, keeping almost zero power is really very similar to holding a constant speed for driving. In fact, it is less difficult, because you don't have to adjust for the ups and downs of hills.

Holding approximately zero power is really just a slight modification of a skill most of us know well: holding a constant speed with our foot by modulating the accelerator pedal...
 
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No regen is the best regen, except when braking.

If an EV could somehow automatically simulate N when foot off the gas pedal and do regen when foot on the brake pedal - that would the ideal scenario to garner most efficiency.

Somehow this is very hard to make people understand both here and the Nissan forum. Folks go on a tangent on how driving in N is bad, illegal and such and completely miss the point.

+2

Indeed.
 
No regen is the best regen, except when braking.

This makes no sense. No regen can't be the best regen because it's not regenerating at all. I understand the point is that coasting, if not needing to stop, is better use of already used power than regenerating it back to the battery. But if you are driving that way, you are not driving an electric car as it's meant to be driven by the designers of this system. The car was designed such that letting your foot off the electron pedal is braking because it makes for nearly one foot driving when done right. I would be really disappointed if the car was designed in the manner you propose. I love the instant regen when I let off the pedal because that's how I do most of my braking.

Plus, who can feel regen in a Leaf? even in Eco mode it's barely noticeable. To me, it's always coasting with my foot off the pedal and I really miss the Tesla regen whenever I drive it. And "forget about it" when it comes to regen on my Tahoe hybrid. I can see it on the screen but that's about it.
 
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I would agree that if there were a button to turn regen on/off easily accessible from the steering wheel, it would be more efficient to coast for a while, and then turn regen on, in the case of a red light way off in the distance -- but I don't think it's worth the potential danger of shifting into neutral in the absence of a properly designed feature.

I can't really see the danger, what is it that can happen? You are going at 40 mph in N and suddenly you see an UFO up your butt and must accelerate immediately to 80 mph to avoid alien capture? In N brakes and steering still work, as well as everything else, there is just no regen applied, and nothing happens if you floor it. Go into D and you have full power in less time than an ICE revs up and does the same.

As I wrote before, I am not here to convince anyone against their preference, just offering another option. I do see your point in having a preference to fiddle the pedal to achieve close to zero - and good for those who like that - while some of us would enjoy to relax the foot for a while and just ... coast with no effort.

As for me, I don't use it that much as some might think, but when I do, I really do enjoy that feeling of letting go, just letting it glide so gently with zero force from the motor.
 
As I wrote before, I am not here to convince anyone against their preference, just offering another option.
That is just unacceptable!111oneoneone...

As for me, I don't use it that much as some might think, but when I do, I really do enjoy that feeling of letting go, just letting it glide so gently with zero force from the motor.
I for one want two clutches that completely disconnect both wheels from differential and motor.
Gearbox is only about 98% efficient meaning there is still some drag from the motor on those rotating gears even when in neutral.
 
That is just unacceptable!111oneoneone...


I for one want two clutches that completely disconnect both wheels from differential and motor.
Gearbox is only about 98% efficient meaning there is still some drag from the motor on those rotating gears even when in neutral.

WarpedOne as your handle seems a bit of an understatement. Whatever it is you have smoked, I hope you don't drive after smoking it :rolleyes:
 
I usually just feather the accelerator to near zero, but I can definitely feel that true Neutral is different.
1. In N it feels more free with less drag
2. I think it accelerates downhill faster in N compared to holding accelerator near zero
3. In N you can see a little bit of power use on the dash - it doesn't go to exactly zero. So if you are holding it at zero then you are actually regenning a little bit and slowing the car a tiny bit.
4. So given #3, I try to hold the accelerator to a little bit above zero, but it still doesn't feel exactly like N to me

All that said, I rarely use N. Certainly not when the hill is steep and the car would get so fast in N that it could be dangerous or reach high speeds where you start losing energy to air resistance. Better to slow the car with regen than air resistance.
 
Neutral coasting is always the most efficient. ( that is what he meant when he said no regen is the best regen). Regen should be applied only when you need to slow down faster than coasting.

There ought to be an easier way to go in and out of neutral.
 
Clicking the lever briskly up to Neutral, it will release a triple warning tone, and it doesn't always work going into Neutral. That is because you need to toggle it just a little, NOT into R but just one small click up to N (just like when you want to add or subtract one single km/h or mph, with the cruise control). Bang, and you are gliding like a floating carpet, no bells of warning, no jerks at all. And boy does this car glide! Due to the inertia it seems like it wants to glide for a long time.

I belong to the group that use accelerator pedal to get to a sweet spot of 0 kW, but for those who prefer switching car into neutral via the shifter lever, it can be also done by toggling the lever DOWN toward the D half-way. This way one can avoid mistakenly switching to R by pushing the lever up too far.
 
I'm sorry Dave, but I can't do that.
Car is not dumb enough to engage R while going forward to fast.

??
I was suggesting a way to avoid switching shift lever to R triggering the warning beep.
Thank you for reminding that car can't engage in R while moving, but I think everybody knows that by now - it is covered in OP.
 
I would agree that if there were a button to turn regen on/off easily accessible from the steering wheel, it would be more efficient to coast for a while, and then turn regen on, in the case of a red light way off in the distance -- but I don't think it's worth the potential danger of shifting into neutral in the absence of a properly designed feature.

The Chevy Volt has such a "button." A nice beefy shifter that can easily and quickly be moved from D to L and back. No need to go to neutral to coast, as D provides only about 200 Watts regen, probably just enough to keep the 12 V system powered without using the HV battery.

As a former manual transmission driver, this is very natural for me. I hope that Tesla adds similar shifter control of Regen, or steering wheel paddle control, similar to the Mercedes B-class electric.

GSP

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I seem to be missing something here.

Lots of folks speak of the difficulty of matching zero power or tensing their foot, but in reality, keeping almost zero power is really very similar to holding a constant speed for driving. In fact, it is less difficult, because you don't have to adjust for the ups and downs of hills.

Holding approximately zero power is really just a slight modification of a skill most of us know well: holding a constant speed with our foot by modulating the accelerator pedal...

Personally, I find it difficiult to hold a constant speed with the accelerator. Cruise does this much better than I do. I know that others report they have no such dificiulty, so maybe there are differences in skill that drive different preferences.

GSP
 
Personally, I find it difficiult to hold a constant speed with the accelerator. Cruise does this much better than I do. I know that others report they have no such dificiulty, so maybe there are differences in skill that drive different preferences.

GSP

Even if people can do it, it sipmly isn't safe to require such a menial and draining task. It would be better to be automated. The simplest would be to have a simply coasting feature. Even better now is the auto pilot.

Requiring lots of micro decisions, like feathering the gas pedal back and forth to keep hunting for the efficient coasting point between accel and regen, is a waste of time and energy and is unsafe: How to be Happier and More Productive by Avoiding