Model S and Model 3

[AnxietyRanger]

Almost every "option" for the A4 is standard on the Model S which would explain why there are so few additional options. There may not be as many color choices or decorative inlays but ....

Well, Audi A4 is a much cheaper car than Model S. The comparison to look for options, content-wise would be e.g. Audi A7. The point remains: Tesla offers very few options numerically already. If Model 3 is even more limited, that is going to be pretty limited, customization-wise.

In either case, all these doom and gloom posts about the model 3 are funny since we don't know what options it will or won't have yet.

Funny you should say that. It is Tesla making the doom and gloom posts about Model 3.

 

[Garlan Garner]

In either case, all these doom and gloom posts about the model 3 are funny since we don't know what options it will or won't have yet.

Indeed Tesla is bringing the doom and gloom of the Model 3 to the forefront. Elon did it a couple weeks ago.

Model S or Model 3

 

[Lukas99]

Indeed Tesla is bringing the doom and gloom of the Model 3 to the forefront. Elon did it a couple weeks ago.

Model S or Model 3

Tesla wants me to feel bad about my Model 3 choice... this is wrong. Model S is 5 years old. New E class from Mercedes is logicaly more advanced than previous generation of S class. Simply, because they need to show technological advancements. If Tesla is saying that generation 3 of they vehicle is worse than generation 2, it is bad. I hope it is just a marketing gimmick of Elon. It is not about number of screens. But starting from scratch with model 3 means, that lastest advacements shall be deployed to show the progress. Last thing I want to people pointing at my car saying hey, he's got the economy version of Tesla :-(((. I want my Tesla to be on top of the trends, not being inferior right away...

 

[googlepeakoil]

I suspect there will be trim options. You won't get to pick individual options as much as the S (which frankly isn't much), but you will get to pick between battery size, D, and P. So I'm thinking these for the trim levels:

3 55
3 55D
3 75 (maybe)
3 75D
3 P75DL

And then the higher up you go, the more options are added. So if you want the luxury features, you gotta splurge for the higher trim level. This would drastically reduce customization. I don't like it, but I can't see it getting any simpler than the S already is... I hope it's not like this for the sake of people who want a cheap low-range RWD with a better interior. Because you're gonna want to definitely check that box based on the pics we've seen so far...

I wonder what Tesla will be like in 50 years, assuming the risks they're taking with Model 3 don't bankrupt them. Will we have 4 pages of options? Because that would be awesome.

of course to start with it'll be more like
3 55
3 70
3 70P
No D for 6-9 months. And some rather optimistic people on Youtube channel thought the 6-9months until we see a D mode starts now. NO it starts from launch!!! 6-9 months from end of March puts you into the actual Q3-Q4 launch to the general public (the first Q3 sales will be employees). It won't be until Summer 2018 I suspect.

 

[googlepeakoil]

Indeed Tesla is bringing the doom and gloom of the Model 3 to the forefront. Elon did it a couple weeks ago.

Model S or Model 3

I noted Elon in that post DIDN'T mention miles per KW - haha!
He again mentioned # of screens (1 instead of 2) - which is a bad design and REALLY BAD MARKETING when nearly EVERY other car out there doesn't compromise the number of screens to only 1! $15k cars have 2 screens! If he wants to differentiate in # of screens build some into the rear headrests - don't remove one from the driver!
eg. Vizualogic - Mobile Video Entertainment Systems ::: Rear Seat Entertainment - or Panamera rear screens.

 

[ummgood]

of course to start with it'll be more like
3 55
3 70
3 70P
No D for 6-9 months. And some rather optimistic people on Youtube channel thought the 6-9months until we see a D mode starts now. NO it starts from launch!!! 6-9 months from end of March puts you into the actual Q3-Q4 launch to the general public (the first Q3 sales will be employees). It won't be until Summer 2018 I suspect.

I think you missed a tweet from Elon in this post:
Info and Hints from Elon Tweets

He seems to think that the AWD model will be out before the end of the year which goes along with the 6-9 months from NOW.

 

[JoaoD]

Model S is 5 years old

Model S is what? Model S from 5 years ago and Model S from this year are very different cars if all you are comparing is technology.

If Tesla is saying that generation 3 of they vehicle is worse than generation 2, it is bad.

And do you seriously expect a car that starts at less than half the price to be more technologically advanced? In what world do you live?

 

[azred]

The article Tesla posted on its company blog yesterday again referenced 215 mile range. If that's the final number, I am very surprised that the base car will have significantly less rated range than the base Bolt.

 

[Aieukl378]

I have an S(which is awesome!!!) and have a M3 reserved for my wife. My S is my cross country cruising machine and the M3 will be my wife's runabout. I placed my order hour1/day1 so hopefully will take delivery this year(finger crossed). I absolutely love new look of the M3, love the minimal interior, would order RWD anyway and think the "screen only" is clever and futuristic.

People seem to be more obsessed with the 3's "screen only" ui than anything. I really wouldn't fret. Understand in the MS the screen is customizable and I'm certain the screen in the M3 will be customizable to the point that a speedometer could take up a portion of the screen real estate if wanted. Tesla is a very clever company...the M3's gonna be a great car.

 

[dsvick]

So what exactly will they cut out? I'll list the features from Tesla's website... Maybe we can brainstorm what exactly Tesla thinks might be out. This of course doesn't list the battery and drive features. I'll put my comments on what I think they might drop.

Features...

• 17" capacitive touchscreen - Of course gone for the new 15" screen
• Onboard maps and navigation with free updates for 7 years - Will this continue to be included for free? Maybe the tech package will come back?
• Automatic keyless entry - I am guessing they'll include this
• WiFi and Internet connectivity - I am guessing they'll include this for over the air but maybe it will cost extra and they'll expect you to wifi the car to your home internet to get updates?
• Mobile app remote control - I am guessing they'll still include this.
• Retracting door handles - Know this is gone...
• One touch power windows - They'll include this... Maybe it will be limited to one or two windows?
• High definition backup camera - They'll have to keep this due to regulations
• GPS enabled Homelink - This could be dropped or maybe just make it a button someone has to press instead of GPS based.
• Hands free talking with Bluetooth - They'll keep this
• Voice activated controls - They'll keep this
• AM, FM, and Internet streaming radio - Maybe no internet streaming if the car doesn't have LTE?
• Available Ultra High Fidelity Sound package with XM radio support - I am guessing they'll have an option but maybe not as many speakers
• Auto dimming mirrors - Maybe just the rear view mirror.
• Power folding, heated side mirrors with memory - Maybe ditch the power folding mirrors
• Two USB ports for media and power - They'll keep
• 12 volt power outlet - Keep
• Twelve way power adjustable, heated front seats with memory and driver profile - I am hoping they keep memory because this is something I want but I wouldn't be surprised if they drop it. They could also go to a 6 or 8 way power seat instead of 12.
• Available subzero weather package with heated rear seats and wiper blade and windshield washer fluid defrosters - Maybe just have rear heated seats and get rid of the wiper bland and washer fluid defrosters?
• Front trunk (no engine!), rear trunk, and 60/40 folding rear seats. Keep it. Just not as big
• I am guessing the safety features will all stay.
• On the interior upgrade package I bet they drop some LED lighting, maybe not have the HEPA filter available and ditch the power trunk lid
• I am guessing initially there will be less wheels to choose from but that is an easy way to get more money out of people.
• Roof options should be similar.

I wonder if heated front seats will become options as part of the cold weather package and there will be no heated rear seats, even with the package. They might even move heated side view mirrors to the cold weather package.
For the LTE, I expect it will be included but only usable by Tesla for updates and synching AP data. For personal use it will be either an option, or you only get so many GB per month free.
One thing you didn't mention is the 400kWh or free super charging that model S and X get. I would not be surprised if it is not included with the model 3.

 

[ummgood]

I wonder if heated front seats will become options as part of the cold weather package and there will be no heated rear seats, even with the package. They might even move heated side view mirrors to the cold weather package.
For the LTE, I expect it will be included but only usable by Tesla for updates and synching AP data. For personal use it will be either an option, or you only get so many GB per month free.
One thing you didn't mention is the 400kWh or free super charging that model S and X get. I would not be surprised if it is not included with the model 3.

You're points are all valid. Here are my thoughts on them...

1. More and more small lux cars are getting heated rear seats. I am starting to seem them in the cheaper japanese brands too so it might or might not happen. It is a toss up. It wouldn't surprise me though if you get all or nothing depending on the cold weather package (if that package is even there). You might have to step up to one interior upgrade package to get basically a subset of the cold weather packages and current interior upgrade package.
2. For the LTE I am guessing that they'll probably charge a per/year or have a package that comes with 3 years with a price following. It would be smart for them to do so. They can work a deal with their provider to get the data they need for free and then pass on any upgrade profits that way they decrease their cost to $0.
3. I think with the announcement months ago about the Model X and S not getting free lifetime supercharging it implies to me that the Model 3 will come with what the S and X have where you get a certain amount (maybe less than the X or S) but will have to pay beyond that point. I don't envision them taking that away until their competition has some way to duplicate it because it is a selling feature for people who are nervous about EV's.

Edit: Oh and I am still disappointed that Tesla ditched ventilated seats. That is something that more and more cars are getting and when it finally seemed like they were going that way they dumped it. Us Texas folks value anything that can keep our sweaty backside cool. I am hoping to still have the ability to turn on the climate control in the cabin before I get to the car.

 

[gregincal]

Tesla wants me to feel bad about my Model 3 choice... this is wrong. Model S is 5 years old. New E class from Mercedes is logicaly more advanced than previous generation of S class. Simply, because they need to show technological advancements. If Tesla is saying that generation 3 of they vehicle is worse than generation 2, it is bad. I hope it is just a marketing gimmick of Elon. It is not about number of screens. But starting from scratch with model 3 means, that lastest advacements shall be deployed to show the progress. Last thing I want to people pointing at my car saying hey, he's got the economy version of Tesla :-(((. I want my Tesla to be on top of the trends, not being inferior right away...

Let me assure you the Model 3 will have far more tech than my 4 year old Model S.

 

[Sonny Daze]

3 55
3 55D
3 75 (maybe)
3 75D
3 P75DL

I see what you did there with the maybe. You're really trying to stir things up, aren't you?

 

[Oyinko]

Tesla is facing a potential big problem. New buyers are holding off and are waiting to see the final specs and price of the Model 3. This could harm a lot Tesla sales until Elon Musk reveals to the public the Model 3.

I also believe Tesla did a mistake by naming the Model with a number. In the mind of many people, 3 is what comes after 1 and 2 (S & X). People are used to this because of the iPhone naming convention.

Tesla is reaffirming that the Model 3, despite its name, is not a version 3. It will be the entry level of the brand and if people want to buy the best performing car that Tesla can produce, they should buy a S or a X now.

 

[eisbock]

The article Tesla posted on its company blog yesterday again referenced 215 mile range. If that's the final number, I am very surprised that the base car will have significantly less rated range than the base Bolt.

To be fair, they did say "at least". However, I don't see Model 3 beating Bolt range with only a 55kWh battery. Maybe it was bumped up to 60kWh, and that's the reason they're cutting every single cost corner they possibly can.

 

[dsvick]

Tesla is facing a potential big problem. New buyers are holding off and are waiting to see the final specs and price of the Model 3. This could harm a lot Tesla sales until Elon Musk reveals to the public the Model 3.

I also believe Tesla did a mistake by naming the Model with a number. In the mind of many people, 3 is what comes after 1 and 2 (S & X). People are used to this because of the iPhone naming convention.

Tesla is reaffirming that the Model 3, despite its name, is not a version 3. It will be the entry level of the brand and if people want to buy the best performing car that Tesla can produce, they should buy a S or a X now.

Not revealing the final specs is not affecting sales at all. They haven't even begun "selling" them yet and when they do, anyone on the fence right now that hasn't put down their money will be waiting for, probably, close to two years before they receive their car. So someone waiting a few months to see the final specs is not affecting Tesla in the least.

I don't think the model name matters, there are plenty of car companies out their that mix numbers and words in their models. Anyone in the market to buy the "best performing car Tesla can produce" will certainly be doing their research and will realize they want the S or the X and not the 3.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Not revealing the final specs is not affecting sales at all. They haven't even begun "selling" them yet and when they do, anyone on the fence right now that hasn't put down their money will be waiting for, probably, close to two years before they receive their car. So someone waiting a few months to see the final specs is not affecting Tesla in the least.

I'm not sure you are right. While I do agree the specs in particular may not affect the sales as much (see my point below about specs both cutting or extending waiting time), people waiting a few months certainly seem to be a problem in Tesla's mind, who are clearly concerned of at least Q2 sales stalling (Elon tweet storm, the latest blog post).

As for waiting for the specs, I'm sure there are customers waiting for them. It just makes sense from a customer perspective. Were I buying a Tesla right now, I would wait for the specs to see what's what and then decide. The silliest thing would be to order something now, if a Model 3 even remotely could be an option and I wouldn't need a car fast. Waiting 3 months to see what that option is, would make sense in many cases, no matter how unfortunate for the company. If those specs were available today, that wait might be shortened - though of course it could also be leghtened, meaning I would decide to wait for the car...

As for people on the fence, what makes you think a lot of people on the fence don't have reservations? I do and I know many others who do as well. Many Tesla owners who are looking at second vehicles, do. Many non-owners bought into the wait without really finalizing their thoughts, given the lengthy wait, when they know more they will decide. It seems half of TMC reserved a Model 3 just in case. And we know from the Model X reservation list, not nearly all of that materialized in sales, and that was far more money than a $1000...

So certainly the wait for Model 3 includes some portion of people who do have Model 3 reservations, but who are not certain to buy and who could also be customers for other Tesla models.

I don't think the model name matters, there are plenty of car companies out their that mix numbers and words in their models. Anyone in the market to buy the "best performing car Tesla can produce" will certainly be doing their research and will realize they want the S or the X and not the 3.

Tesla does face a rather unique problem: For those other cars, where numbers are customarily used, the better models have the bigger number. 7 Series is better than 3 Series, following conventional logic and emotion attached to numbers.

Tesla's naming scheme on the other hand has no such logic. Given the consumer electronics connotations also attached to Tesla, Model 3 being better than Model S seems plausible. After all, Model S sounds a bit like, well, an iPhone S (aka 1+). iPhone 3 is better than an iPhone 1+.

That said, I personally like the Model 3 name and understand its history. But it can be a problematic label, no doubt. Most importantly Tesla's recent reaction (Elon tweet storm, the latest blog post) suggest they are seeing such an effect.

 

[gregincal]

Not revealing the final specs is not affecting sales at all. They haven't even begun "selling" them yet and when they do, anyone on the fence right now that hasn't put down their money will be waiting for, probably, close to two years before they receive their car. So someone waiting a few months to see the final specs is not affecting Tesla in the least.

I don't think the model name matters, there are plenty of car companies out their that mix numbers and words in their models. Anyone in the market to buy the "best performing car Tesla can produce" will certainly be doing their research and will realize they want the S or the X and not the 3.

I believe he's talking about people choosing between a Model 3 or a Model S. And from reading the boards before the latest series of tweets you can find quite a lot of people who believed the the top of the line Model 3 would be faster and more advanced than the Model S (I'd have to do some digging to find the threads, but they definitely exist). I'm not sure how much the name matters, though.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I believe he's talking about people choosing between a Model 3 or a Model S. And from reading the boards before the latest series of tweets you can find quite a lot of people who believed the the top of the line Model 3 would be faster and more advanced than the Model S (I'd have to do some digging to find the threads, but they definitely exist). I'm not sure how much the name matters, though.

It is not unrealistic to believe Model 3 could/would be more advanced than a current Model S. After all, Model 3 will be more advanced in many ways than, say, a Model S bought in Q3/2016.

Waiting for Model 3 to be released, to see what hardware advancements might accompany that, would make sense even if you are buying a Model S.

This is part normal, part made worse by Tesla's quarterly changes creating a perpetual feel of osbourning their products. When buying a Tesla, waiting (forever) seems to be the best policy.

 

[gregincal]

It is not unrealistic to believe Model 3 could/would be more advanced than a current Model S. After all, Model 3 will be more advanced in many ways than, say, a Model S bought in Q3/2016.

Waiting for Model 3 to be released, to see what hardware advancements might accompany that, would make sense even if you are buying a Model S.

This is part normal, part made worse by Tesla's quarterly changes creating a perpetual feel of osbourning their products. When buying a Tesla, waiting (forever) seems to be the best policy.

Certainly I am planning to buy a new Tesla in the next year, either a Model 3 or a Model S, we'll see (I'd prefer the smaller car as long as there aren't too many compromises). I'm happy to wait until the final Model 3 specs are released and I can sit in the car in person before deciding. I can't see having waited with a reservation this long and then giving up on the basis of some tweets. I can only see the tweets affecting people who really want an S, but want to be reassured that they won't look like chumps for not waiting for the 3.