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Model S AP crashes

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Not feeling terribly safe after that

I do not think you are supposed to "feel terribly safe" when you turn the AP on. It is implicit that you are testing beta software, so while the overall dynamic changes, you must stay alert and in control of the vehicle. The car operates differently from the traditional mode, but it is no time to relax, take a nap, and feel "terribly safe". You are testing new equipment, and if you do not agree to do so, you should not have wasted your money on AP.

From the picture, the damage sucks, though. You have my sympathy.
 
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So the OP has been lectured about trusting AP - fine, it had to be said. Some people have said that AP has a well documented affinity for trucks. And Tesla have supposedly said AP behaved as designed ... apparently by drifting or turning into an adjacent lane on a straight road.

For me, a recent purchaser of a CPO with AP, these last two items are of concern. When I take over from AP manually (to change lane) there is a reasonable force needed to get it to 'let go'. The one time it tried to curb me on the median curb, again it was reasonable effort to get it to 'let go' in time (ICEs apparently curb there a lot too - as all the rubber cannot just be from Teslas). Point is, reaction times are not what you'd all like to believe they are, and then there is the need to exert enough force to get control. It seems very plausible to me that a rapid move would create an unavoidable collision - even with your hands on the wheel - which I have all the time.

Question is - what is normal and expected about the vehicle changing lanes on a straight road? Even if it was blinded by the sun (I've seen this a number of times already with only 4 weeks ownership)?

My personal theory, based on very limited experience. OP was driving on AP. At a point prior to the impact AP disengaged as it could not 'see' properly - so the vehicle was actually driving on TACC instead. With no vehicle close enough or locked to follow, the car will drift at that point. And if the OP was "looking straight ahead" - it would be easy to miss that drift.

Behaving as designed could be "disengaged appropriately when it was unable to offer safe assistance".

Reason this is my theory. I had mine go from AP to TACC 'silently' - which is to say I did not hear the disengage noise just yesterday. Happened to notice blue wheel went gray, and speed indicators were blue indicating TACC engaged. I do not drive with music loud, and was not distracted.

AP is definitely not the safety feature I thought it was on purchasing, and with 20:20 hindsight I'd not spec AP1 or AP2 for a current purchase - too many unknowns related to future perforamance.

The assertion this would not happen with fully enabled AP2 is certainly a good thing to hope for - better sensors, and better decision making. But at this point this thread does not offer a definitive cause - so just as I am speculating that AP may not have been engaged, there are a myriad of other reasons it might have happened which may or may not be affected by different hardware.

Best advice in the thread (and elsewhere). It's Driver's Assistance, always have hands on the wheel, always be just as aware as you would be if in direct control - and at that point, it's no more than an emergency alert and possibly a sleep/wander warning/avoidance system. Which makes it a very expensive addition.

The more people I read worried about having to set their AP to the speed limit, and who say they are driving 50-100 miles per day and AP is essential - the more pleased I am that my commute is 4 miles each way, and my primary MS driver does little highway. It's not a novelty or toy, but it's also not what many people are treating it as - and it certainly has proven in short order it's not the safety feature I was hoping it would be for the driver I purchased it for!
 
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My car did the same several times now.
I have close to 7000miles on it with AP1.0.
It seems like it just really wants to hit that truck in front to the right of it. It does not drift into it, it just moves into it pretty quick.
I would call you have roughly about 1-2 seconds to react. You feel the movement of the wheel where should be none. You realize you move to the right, you see the trailer and you hit the wheel hard to the left and disengage autopilot doing so. I had thos on my christmas drive to ma family yesterday and have had a dashcam running all night. I do not know if you can really see it in the video, but I will check if you are interested.
 
Something is squishy here.

Tesla just got back to me today and stated that AP is more of a novelty and shouldn't be used for safety

Really?

and the Tesla engineers determined the AP acted exactly how it was supposed to during the crash. <snip> Tesla's stance has been consistent that AP is beta and shouldn't be used for safety.

Huh?

I am also curious why the sales reps were so adamant about me using the AP and not touching the wheel. We coming any feedback.

Right. Sure they did.

I drive 90 miles a month and purchased the car to be as safe as possible. Not feeling terribly safe after that.

LOLZ.

Say WHAT? I think you just Squished yourself.

Indeed. And yet the thread lives on ... Fascinating.
 
Behaving as designed could be "disengaged appropriately when it was unable to offer safe assistance".

Reason this is my theory. I had mine go from AP to TACC 'silently' - which is to say I did not hear the disengage noise just yesterday. Happened to notice blue wheel went gray, and speed indicators were blue indicating TACC engaged. I do not drive with music loud, and was not distracted.

No, AP is not designed to disengage silently. When conditions warrant, a loud beeping and red "hands" appear in the IC alerting the driver to immediately take over.

If you believe AP disengaged silently, you should call a SC and have them check your logs.
 
Is the the first recorded instance of "truck lust" resulting in an accident? I don't follow AP stuff that closely, but seems to be a known bug that AP swerves toward trucks.

I've complained about "truck lust" for months now and our local SC just brushes it off.

It's insane actually. Here's the rundown (and this occurs under a variety of "perfect" conditions--straight highway, well marked lanes, clear vis, etc.):

1. Car knows there's a truck coming up in the right lane (that we're passing at a reasonable speed delta).

2. Car clearly shows large truck on IP display.

3. Car then starts to move from center of my lane TOWARD THE RIGHT EDGE OF MY LANE ("Truck Lust").

4. Car KNOWS it is doing this as it clearly shows displacement to the right in the lane display on the IP AND ultrasonic sensors are alerting and moving into more aggressive colors.

5. Human intervention required to avoid an accident.

Happens over and over, but only about 1 to 3% of the time when passing a large truck or SUV.

Love Tesla, but hate this part of AP v 1.0 and it's seemingly trying to kill me . . . .
 
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Is the the first recorded instance of "truck lust" resulting in an accident? I don't follow AP stuff that closely, but seems to be a known bug that AP swerves toward trucks.

It's the first I know of, and from my experience with truck lust it's pretty understandable about how it happened.

The people lecturing the OP probably simply haven't experienced truck lust. Sure I get telling a person to make sure their hands are on the wheel, but with truck lust it's deeper than that. It's a lot more sudden, and quick than what someone would expect.

It's one of those right time, right circumstances kind of things. In the OP's case it's pretty easy to see why the car would lose the line towards the truck. Then it searches for the line by drifting that way right into the truck. The ultrasonic sensors don't pick up the truck since the truck trailer is higher.

Like a lot of accidents it was a combination of factors that contributed.

If someone wants to additive safety then use TACC only. AP has limitations that compromise safety. Things like losing lines over a crest, or when next to a truck. It can suddenly slow down for no apparent reason (that have nothing to do with TACC).
 
It's the first I know of, and from my experience with truck lust it's pretty understandable about how it happened.

The people lecturing the OP probably simply haven't experienced truck lust. Sure I get telling a person to make sure their hands are on the wheel, but with truck lust it's deeper than that. It's a lot more sudden, and quick than what someone would expect.

It's one of those right time, right circumstances kind of things. In the OP's case it's pretty easy to see why the car would lose the line towards the truck. Then it searches for the line by drifting that way right into the truck. The ultrasonic sensors don't pick up the truck since the truck trailer is higher.

Like a lot of accidents it was a combination of factors that contributed.

If someone wants to additive safety then use TACC only. AP has limitations that compromise safety. Things like losing lines over a crest, or when next to a truck. It can suddenly slow down for no apparent reason (that have nothing to do with TACC).

Just to be clear, NONE of those "compromise safety" issues have ever been involved in my many "truck lust" incidents. None. (And we have two MS's with AP v 1.0, btw, and both demonstrate this same peculiar safety problem.)

That's what so disconcerting--an out of the blue, random, move toward a known target that could cause significant damage and/or death when there is NO understandable reason for the car to do this. Kind of takes the joy out of using AP when this problem exists, lurking to catch us in an unprepared moment . . . .
 
It's one of those right time, right circumstances kind of things. In the OP's case it's pretty easy to see why the car would lose the line towards the truck. Then it searches for the line by drifting that way right into the truck. The ultrasonic sensors don't pick up the truck since the truck trailer is higher.

You are right, because in Europe we don't have that kind of behavior regarding "Truck Lust". Truck trailer in Europe are low, close to the road. So no drifting to keep the lane! Driving on Highway at high speed in Switzerland (120 km/h) and passing by a truck has never been an issue for the TACC/ Auto lane (but monitoring the AP all time is a MUST).
 
You are right, because in Europe we don't have that kind of behavior regarding "Truck Lust".

I am sorry to push you right back, but I am from europe and I have had this problem quite a few times already.
Last time was a gasoline truck... Maybe it has something to do with the open space just above the ground that the radar does not pick up right.

I'd like to see the video if possible.

OK I will look into it, I got the footage now from the car, but I will have to search through about 13 hours of video. I have some idea when it happened...
Any idea how someone can speed this up? I have about 270 videos with a few minutes each... I am thinking about to put them all into iMovie and scew over them... I will come back here in a few...
 
Having your hands on the wheel and paying attention is not the same as you actively steering. Even when I have my hands on the wheel during AP, I'm not guiding the wheel myself and my arms are relaxed with my hands gripping enough to stay on the wheel but AP is doing the steering. Under those circumstances, if AP decided to suddenly veer 8 feet to the right and hit a truck, I doubt I'd be able to react quickly enough.