Model S as a car (forgetting the EV)

[GSP]

.......I'm also going to enjoy never having to stop for gas again.

Yes. The ease and convienice of refueling at home, and having a full battery every morning, are hard to appriciate until you have experienced it.

GSP

 

[ElSupreme]

I'm planning on getting this car because I want a sedan (important for me) that is fun to drive. My original plan was to get an M5 this cycle. I'd been putting off getting rid of my 545i waiting for the M5 to get to the States. My back up plan was a 55oi. Both would be six-speeds of course because, you know, I'm a real man.

I too am wondering about missing shifting. I have owned a standard transmission car (if I owned a car at the time) since I got my license at 16. I would never consider getting an automatic (Torque-Converter variety). I tried a DSG and really missed my clutch pedal. I think the car having 100% torque at rpm will get me over this worry. I won't need to spool up my engine and drop a clutch, I just point and go.

 

[AustinPowers]

I've had SD car slots in every new vehicle I've owned. These days I think most people have their music digitally (I do, even though I still buy CD's unless the MP3 album is on sale at Amazon), so it's a lot easier to load content onto an iPod, phone, USB stick or SD card than it is to carry around and juggle CDs IMO. Heck, apple is even phasing out optical drives on their computers. I think Tesla made a forward-thinking decision.

Contrary to popular belief, Apple is a company that is not as popular as in the US everywhere else in the world. Phasing out optical drives is nice if you care for cloud computing and throwing away all your "old" software, films etc. on such outdates mediums as CDs, DVDs and BluRays. But here in the old world, we still like to use our Neanderthal devices <sarcasm off>

And as for iTunes, thanks but no thanks. Been there, done that, ruined my system and files several times. No way, ever again.

At least - if I decide to buy the Model S after all - I can save some money by not ordering the top sound system :wink:

Thanks by the way for the info about the folding mirrors, memory seats and parking sensors. That I didn't know yet.

About the safety headrests: these are special headrests that adjust themselves in milliseconds to an optimal position to avoid concussions and reduce neck-traumas in accidents. Volvo pioneered the technology and most premium car makers (and even some in the mid-range market) offer that feature as standard or option, at least in Europe.
Similar with the LED headlights. Especially Audi is promoting that technology, which seems ideal combined with an EV, as it uses far less electric energy than standard or even xenon headlamps while at the same time offering even better night vision. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that LEDs last almost forever (my BMW for example has full LED rear light and indicator arrays and in the eight years that I have had the car not one single LED unit has had any defect).

 

[ElSupreme]

... have you ever converted a hundred CDs or more to files?

Pro tip. Buy a second CD drive and rip one while you swap the other. You can do 25 an hour easily.

 

[mnx]

I thought about that a lot as well, and asked myself "Why do I greatly prefer manual transmissions over autos?". The answer was that the manual was much much nicer to drive, (no slushiness to the transmission) and when you put your foot down there is no annoying downshifting. I see having no transmission all as being superior to a manual trans. Having instant response without needing to downshift is going to be awesome.

I too am wondering about missing shifting. I have owned a standard transmission car (if I owned a car at the time) since I got my license at 16. I would never consider getting an automatic (Torque-Converter variety). I tried a DSG and really missed my clutch pedal. I think the car having 100% torque at rpm will get me over this worry. I won't need to spool up my engine and drop a clutch, I just point and go.

 

[AustinPowers]

Pro tip. Buy a second CD drive and rip one while you swap the other. You can do 25 an hour easily.

Actually I have three drives in my PC (CD ROM, DVD RW an BD RW) so I could juggle with three CDs at the same time. But the point is I don't see any sense in that. Should I throw away all my CDs afterwards? No thanks. All our cars had and have CD drives, in our house we have players different guises in almost every room. No need for music as files whatsoever. And to waste many hours of the little free time that I have in my life just to be able to listen to music in a car doesn't really seem very sensible to me.

Perhaps I'm too old school after all...

 

[Doug_G]

- folding side mirrors? (very sensible on sich a wide car, and standard or optional on many cars of today)

Reportedly they do fold. We don't know if they are motorized.

- front and rear parking assistant (at least in the form of sound signals, standard or optional on most cars)

I have this on my current ICE car, and consider it worthless bordering on annoying. The sensors are very obvious on the bumper. It doesn't tell me anything I can't already see in the rear view camera.

- active safety headrests (I think they are talking about making them compulsory in the EU)

If they do make them compulsory, then you'll obviously get them as part of the homologation...

- glove compartment and various other compartments for stowing away stuff (I didn't see any on pictures of the Model S interior)

It does have a glove compartment.

- memory function on the adjustable seats for more than just one driver

Not on the base model, but the higher models have them.

 

[Doug_G]

I too am wondering about missing shifting.

I've driven all three types (manual, automatic, none). For the conventional cars, I prefer manual for performance driving, automatic when stuck in traffic. But the Roadster beats both of those in all situations. You have powerful regen instead of relatively wimpy downshifting. You have seamless power at any speed without downshifting. Acceleration is smooth and brisk.

 

[HFh]

I too am wondering about missing shifting. I have owned a standard transmission car (if I owned a car at the time) since I got my license at 16. I would never consider getting an automatic (Torque-Converter variety). I tried a DSG and really missed my clutch pedal. I think the car having 100% torque at rpm will get me over this worry. I won't need to spool up my engine and drop a clutch, I just point and go.

When I drove the Fisker, I couldn't figure out what to do with my right hand. There was nothing to even rest it on. 100% torque at 0, though....

I was planning on selling the 545 but maybe I'll keep it for a while and just shift every once in a while.

 

[AustinPowers]

Reportedly they do fold. We don't know if they are motorized.



I have this on my current ICE car, and consider it worthless bordering on annoying. The sensors are very obvious on the bumper. It doesn't tell me anything I can't already see in the rear view camera.



If they do make them compulsory, then you'll obviously get them as part of the homologation...



It does have a glove compartment.



Not on the base model, but the higher models have them.

Thanks for the info, I stand corrected. But about the parking sensors: mine have turned out to be very useful (I have no rear view camera though) and not at all annoying. But I can see that this differs greatly from model to model.

Your other post about your experiences with the roadster, combined with the footage I have seen of the Freemont factory event are what keep me keen in the Model S after all. I have never experienced driving in such an EV and am looking forward to a possible test drive in future, when the Model S enters the market in Germany. Perhaps my other "headaches" will be lifted then as well...

 

[PattyChuck]

For me, the decision was more impulsive. Yeah, an impulse buy that is 15 months out is probably not something you hear about all the time, but hear me out.

I currently drive a base-model Infiniti G35. It's the nicest car I've ever owned. When the Roadster came out in 2008, I would read anything and everything I could get my hands on about that car. I was instantly enamored with it, but at over $100K, I knew I would never ever own one, and I stopped paying attention to the company all together. Then Nissan announced the Leaf in 2009. Knowing that it probably wouldn't come to rural Indiana any time soon, I sort of forgot about it. I leased the Infiniti in 2010. My lease is up in March 2013. In an attempt to bond with my father-in-law, I was planning on taking him to the Chicago Auto Show in February to look at all the autoporn, so earlier this month, I was getting a "must-see list" put together. I stumbled upon the Leaf once again, and discovered that they were now selling them in Indiana, and that a dealership 30 miles from my house would be carrying them. I immediately plunked down the $99 deposit knowing that it would be at least the middle of this year before I would be able to take delivery, and I might be able to negotiate an extension on my reservation to get me to 2013 when I would be done with the Infiniti.

While I was ogling over all the forums on the Leaf, I came across a post where someone mentioned the Tesla Model S. At that time, I had no idea Tesla was building a sedan!! The price of the car is almost double what I spent on my Infiniti, but the stars have been aligning for some time now, and I'm finally in a position where affording, at least for me, the 40 kWh S (my round-trip commute to and from work is a jaw-dropping 6 whole miles... I'd actually ride a bike if the roads weren't horrendously dangerous here, not to mention riding a bike in snow isn't all that fun) is something I can do. So, I plunked down the $5,000 "on an impulse" to get in line. True, my wife was less than thrilled about doing that without discussing it with her first (something about a landscaping and redecorating budget that I'm still confused about), but that's why they call it an impulse buy, right?

Ultimately, for me, this car is all about the technology, and nothing about the luxury. Give me a folding chair and a handle-bar steering wheel, just so long as it's sitting on one of the most advanced battery/motor combos the world has ever seen. I've lived long enough without adaptive cruise control and power-folding mirrors that I know I'll not even give it a seconds worth of thought. Driving by the gas station on my way to work and not instinctively glancing at my fuel gauge? Yeah, I'll think about that every day.

 

[AnOutsider]

Reportedly they do fold. We don't know if they are motorized.

Pretty sure there's a video here on the forums of Tesla employees moving a white Model S into a store and we see the mirrors fold. IIRC it was motorized, but I'll have to find it.

 

[Mycroft]

They manually folded the mirrors in that video. So we won't know the production car's capabilities until Tesla releases the standard features list.

 

[ckessel]

As a car, I'm looking at it just because it seems like a great car. It's hard to ignore the EV-ness of it though as many of the benefits are a result of the EV:

• High mechanical reliability - this is something of a presumption based on general electric motor reliability. It's possible this won't be true, but it seems unlikely and it'd be warranty covered
• Quick - I like sports cars (Dodge Stealth->RX8->Model S). This is a sedan, but it'll be a sporty one. This isn't EV specific, but EV's have great torque.
• Agile - Again not EV specific, but the EV nature makes the CoG low and the car more agile
• Quiet - EV really helps here
• Convenience - This goes with charging at home. Now, on a road trip, this is a negative due to refueling time (even with quick charge), but for 95% of my driving, this is a big plus. No gas stations, no oil changes, etc.

 

[ChadS]

I've driven all three types (manual, automatic, none). For the conventional cars, I prefer manual for performance driving, automatic when stuck in traffic. But the Roadster beats both of those in all situations. You have powerful regen instead of relatively wimpy downshifting. You have seamless power at any speed without downshifting. Acceleration is smooth and brisk.

Agreed. I always drove stick when I had gas cars, and I thought I'd miss it in the Roadster. But thinking about it, the reason I liked the manual transmission was the largely for better control over the limited power band of the engine. You've got all that control under your right foot in an electric car, with much better responsiveness (and easier driving in heavy traffic) to boot. I don't miss shifting at all.

(Similar story for the "growl of the engine". I thought I'd miss it, but it's just an association in your head between sound and power. Your brain learns new rules when you switch cars).

I bought my first EV fully prepared to make sacrifices in order to get off gas. But now that I've found that there are not only no sacrifices*, but some big advantages, I'm not going back to gas, even if somebody discovers an unlimited 50-cent-per-gallon domestic source that magically creates no emissions.

*Yes, I am aware that it takes longer to refuel. But on the very rare trips where that matters, we take our Prius, so I don't have to sacrifice anything (well, OK, we do sacrifice power, quietness and smoothness when we take the Prius). If the Model S can use CHAdeMO, or if the Supercharger network gets built out enough, it will be more hassle to license and maintain the Prius than to very occasionally wait a little extra time for the DCQC.

 

[AnOutsider]

As a car, I'm looking at it just because it seems like a great car. It's hard to ignore the EV-ness of it though as many of the benefits are a result of the EV:

• High mechanical reliability - this is something of a presumption based on general electric motor reliability. It's possible this won't be true, but it seems unlikely and it'd be warranty covered
• Quick - I like sports cars (Dodge Stealth->RX8->Model S). This is a sedan, but it'll be a sporty one. This isn't EV specific, but EV's have great torque.
• Agile - Again not EV specific, but the EV nature makes the CoG low and the car more agile
• Quiet - EV really helps here
• Convenience - This goes with charging at home. Now, on a road trip, this is a negative due to refueling time (even with quick charge), but for 95% of my driving, this is a big plus. No gas stations, no oil changes, etc.

Well-said all around.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Cross posting from here: What makes Model S a luxury car?

I will leave it to others to define 'luxury' (maybe dictionary.com) but the key thing to realize is that the most luxurious thing about the Model S is the fully electric powertrain.

The people griping about the lack of this luxury feature or that luxury feature (saying things like "if it doesn't have X, I'm not buying it") are missing the KEY luxury feature - it's all electric.

Electric is the ultimate luxury because:
(1) it is nearly silent
(2) it is incredibly powerful with gobs of torque
(3) it accelerates instantly no matter what speed you are traveling at
(4) it requires very little maintenance
(5) it has greater reliability and longevity
(6) it is much more convenient (plug it in like a cell phone - no smelly trips to gas station)
(7) it enables killer features like:
(a) one pedal driving - little need for the brake
(b) climate control system that maintains temps even when you're not in the car
(c) world beating traction control system
(d) even more innovative features coming on the Model X

The Model S also has an advantage over other EVs because of its design that translates into luxury like:
(1) The luxury of dramatically more passenger space due to skateboard design
(2) Seating for 5+2 in a sedan
(3) Tremendous cargo capacity with two trunks
(4) Low center of gravity and superior handling

I could go on but you get the picture. This seems like a lot to give up just because you have to have adaptive cruise control (standard cruise control won't cut it). But to each his own and for every person that buys Model S there will be 49 luxury car buyers that don't buy it and the company will still be a raging success.

 

[medved]

And something plain and simple that really annoys me - no CD player.

What is a CD player? Hm.... Wait a sec. I guess it's a device people used, back in old days, to play music on. It's just a guess, but I'll check with my grandpa to make sure. :wink:

Just kidding. I hear ya. I don't really use a CD player to listen to music. But I do believe the CD player should be in Model S. And that is because Elon said that inside the car it will be like a sound studio. But the quality of ripped music compare to ORIGINAL CD is really terrible. What's the use of good quality speakers and good acoustics when the file you listen to is in a bad quality? People normally don't realize this or don't care about, but a true original audio quality is LPCM 44100 Hz 16 bits stereo for a bitrate of 1411 kbps. These days many people are happy with just 190 kbps. But i must say it is a huge, huge difference to listen to 190 kbps and to listen to 1411 kbps. With good quality speakers you can clearly tell the difference. In Model S you should have the option to enjoy a good quality audio.

 

[Mycroft]

And there are those that claim the quality of CD compared to vinyl LP is "really terrible". Nothing is forcing you to rip the audio from CD at low bitrates. Rip to Apple lossless and there will be absolutely no loss in quality.

A CD player would be expensive, an increase in complexity and a waste of space. With lossless rips, iPhones, and Sonos at home, I'm a very happy camper with all my music available at the touch of a finger.

 

[AnOutsider]

And there are those that claim the quality of CD compared to vinyl LP is "really terrible". Nothing is forcing you to rip the audio from CD at low bitrates. Rip to Apple lossless and there will be absolutely no loss in quality.

Correct. I definitely find often that people who complain about digital media quality never bother to rip at or download high quality versions.