Model S Battery Pack - Cost Per kWh Estimate

[CapitalistOppressor]

They are in the process and just can not say anything.... Soooo, who is funding this effort?

Tesla. I'd be shocked if there is any other answer.

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Ha, Elon's sure telling a lot about this gigafactory for someone who's not talking at all about gigafactory yet

Yes.. he was talking about how green its going to be and you could hear folks choking in the background.

 

[lolachampcar]

I love this guy!

 

[DonPedro]

Yes.. he was talking about how green its going to be and you could hear folks choking in the background.

You could tell at the start of the call that he had seen the market reaction. He is spilling the beans because he wants the market to realize that things are going very well.

 

[Johan]

Love the CEO talking about the diameter and length of the optimal battery cell on a Conference call

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Love the CEO talking about the diameter and length of the optimal battery cell on a Conference call

Again though, his bottom line seems similar to what has been discussed in this thread. Small cells seem to be > than large cells, and there might not be any compelling reason to change the format.

 

[Johan]

Again though, his bottom line seems similar to what has been discussed in this thread. Small cells seem to be > than large cells, and there might not be any compelling reason to change the format.

Of course. The safety benefit is enormous, the ability to fuse and contain thermal runaway. Probably also in a way cheaper to produce.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Ugh, I really want a replay on that conference call. It sounded an awful lot like Deepak shut Elon up because Elon was describing factory visits to Panasonic that could have been Tesla doing due diligence.

 

[DonPedro]

Again though, his bottom line seems similar to what has been discussed in this thread. Small cells seem to be > than large cells, and there might not be any compelling reason to change the format.

Yes. My 2 cents they will do this:

1. Keep the architecture of the current packs mostly intact for Model E
2. Use the same modules in the packs, only fewer
3. Keep the form factor close enough that the same swapper can handle both types (bolts laid out in same pattern etc.)

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Of course. The safety benefit is enormous, the ability to fuse and contain thermal runaway. Probably also in a way cheaper to produce.

The smaller sheet size in the jelly roll means less wastage when you get a fault. Any flaw and you have to discard the whole sheet, so smaller sheets are better at any given defect rate.

 

[Johan]

The smaller sheet size in the jelly roll means less wastage when you get a fault. Any flaw and you have to discard the whole sheet, so smaller sheets are better at any given defect rate.

My thoughts exactaly. Also, when you think of the battery pack as a whole and the whole business of re-using old packs for other applications, upgrading vehicles packs after some years, refurbishing, etc. it all makes sense to pick a small cell size and stick with it.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Whatever is going on with the battery supply issue, Tesla is clearly at an advanced stage of planning and appear to be close to pulling the trigger on whatever it is they are thinking about doing.

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I don't think a massive secondary would be as well received today as it would have been a month ago. They need like ~$5-$6b just for a baby giga-factory if I recall our calculations correctly. And $10b+ for any remotely optimistic assessment of the needs for GenIII.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I love this guy!

Elon? CapOp?

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Ooo.. recording is back up -

http://www.media-server.com/m/p/786ftzc9

 

[JRP3]

3. Keep the form factor close enough that the same swapper can handle both types (bolts laid out in same pattern etc.)

The E pack will by physically smaller so there will have to be either fewer bolts or bolts in a different pattern, probably both. The car will be shorter and narrower. If they even plan on swapping for the E, did they say something about that?

 

[surfside]

Ugh, I really want a replay on that conference call. It sounded an awful lot like Deepak shut Elon up because Elon was describing factory visits to Panasonic that could have been Tesla doing due diligence.

somebody definitely shut elon up when he started talking about visiting panasonic factories; interestingly enough he was mentioning these visits in the context of how elon felt about the supply for 2014 batteries from panasonic (i believe the analyst original asked whether panasonic would need to build new factories, and elon said we feel good about supply for 2014, and went on to talk about the factory visits before getting shut down).

surfside

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Battery discussion begins at 21:30

 

[ModelS8794]

Originally Posted by lolachampcar
They are in the process and just can not say anything.... Soooo, who is funding this effort?

Tesla. I'd be shocked if there is any other answer.

I had surmised upthread that a JV in the vein of Dow Corning would be the right model. His suggestion today that a partnership would be the likely format comports with that prediction. I would actually be shocked if Tesla funded this effort solo.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

"with partner's" plural

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somebody definitely shut elon up when he started talking about visiting panasonic factories; interestingly enough he was mentioning these visits in the context of how elon felt about the supply for 2014 batteries from panasonic (i believe the analyst original asked whether panasonic would need to build new factories, and elon said we feel good about supply for 2014, and went on to talk about the factory visits before getting shut down).

surfside

Yes, that's exactly what I heard. 2014 is fine and "we've been spending a lot of time in Panasonic's factories" and then he is shut up. So he was talking about spending time in their factories in terms of evaluating the needs for future (past 2014) capacity when he was shut up.

 

[hershey101]

"with partner's" plural

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Yes, that's exactly what I heard. 2014 is fine and "we've been spending a lot of time in Panasonic's factories" and then he is shut up. So he was talking about spending time in their factories in terms of evaluating the needs for future (past 2014) capacity when he was shut up.

Can someone grab the audio file, put it into a sound modification program like Audacity and amplify the background noice so we can hear what was said? I'm not familiar with sound waves enough to know how to select and then amplify background noice but I'm sure someone here has that experience.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Can someone grab the audio file, put it into a sound modification program like Audacity and amplify the background noice so we can hear what was said? I'm not familiar with sound waves enough to know how to select and then amplify background noice but I'm sure someone here has that experience.

I actually have Audacity installed, but I am basically clueless when it comes to sound. My background is newspapers, lol.