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Model S Body Refresh Coming in Sept/Oct?

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
220
Livermore CA
I think to stay relevant its going to have to slightly augment its design before the 3. There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address. Tesla is going to get squeezed everywhere, and the brand, other than perhaps the people on this site is still largely misunderstood. As such, I suspect that they will have to do some sort of refresh.

I don't think its going to have to be much - perhaps LED front lights and different wheel packages or even an "M"/"AMG" version. It will require minimal effort as compared to a redesign and will be important in order for it to stay cutting edge. Lets not forget those designs that were perfect in form but sat on their engineering as proof enough and were quickly discarded by a disinterested public via new market entires - Blackberry; Betamax; Sony Walkman...there are MANY others.
 

Stoneymonster

Active Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,787
1,085
Aptos, Ca
There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address.

I think that's very debatable. In the price range, maybe. Comparable on style and features? I doubt it. One reason: Tesla will own the battery market, no one else will have the capability to make more than a few cars until other ramp up battery production.
 

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
220
Livermore CA
I think that's very debatable. In the price range, maybe. Comparable on style and features? I doubt it. One reason: Tesla will own the battery market, no one else will have the capability to make more than a few cars until other ramp up battery production.

Style is personal so what you find beautiful, I might put in the round file and visa versa. As for features...If the MS is an example of feature rich as compared to its ICE competitors, this isnt really holding water. In many respects, cars like the MB S class and Porsche Panamara are far richer in features. "owning" a market in terms of early adoption is true but its not because they own battery production around the globe; its because they currently make a better product. This goes full circle back to my point which is keep the innovation curve steep and rapid on all of the models or you begin to lose control due to outside pressures.

Incidentally, the Model 3 has barely any artist renderings and the few that do come up in search dont look much different than the Chevy Bolt that is due for release over a year sooner than 3.

Breaking: 2017 Chevrolet Bolt 200-Mile Electric Car To Start Production In Oct 2016

- - - Updated - - -

The Porsche 911 has been essentially the same since 1963... and it still looks great!

Even Porsche does refreshes of the platform regularly (as in every 3 years) and the slowly changing dimensions, while subtle, have resulted in an entirely bigger, badder, better car in the 991...which is due for a refresh next year!
 
I hope they do at least 8 years (or longer) like Benz. One of the reasons I convinced myself to get the S was cuz I believed, being such a small company, and given the pattern of delays, and their preoccupation with the C and the 3 it would be unlikely they'd change the body too soon. I was a little worried reading the thread title that there had been some indication this was coming (no I won't sue if they do change it lol)


I do agree they should have a pronounced performance variant. Same basic design, but have something to make the P85D standout. I know this has been discussed on here before.

I think they like that the P85D is a complete sleeper. Other than the badge, no way for anyone to know. There are however plenty of after market versions of the car already available to make the car stand out from the crowd. They range from outrageously aggressive changes to mild and subtle......

Saleen.jpg

Unpluggedagressive.jpg

Revo.jpg

Unpluggedmild.jpg

JMR.jpg
 

vdiv

Chief Grump
Jan 20, 2015
673
840
Reston, VA
Look at the new Volt. A redesign is not necessarily a good thing. Tesla is continuously changing the car (wheels, colors, seats, accessories, steering stalks, software, battery and motors) so a major leap relatively soon does not seem likely. Eventually a full redesign will likely happen but the current Model S has a spot in automotive history that is undeniable.
 

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
220
Livermore CA
Look at the new Volt. A redesign is not necessarily a good thing. Tesla is continuously changing the car (wheels, colors, seats, accessories, steering stalks, software, battery and motors) so a major leap relatively soon does not seem likely. Eventually a full redesign will likely happen but the current Model S has a spot in automotive history that is undeniable.

words said by RIM (Blackberry) and Sony (walkman and Beta)....
 

gregincal

Active Member
Oct 26, 2012
3,776
2,363
Santa Cruz, CA
I don't think its going to have to be much - perhaps LED front lights and different wheel packages or even an "M"/"AMG" version.

Changes like that may very well come, but they won't come as a new model "refresh". They will probably be introduced piecemeal just like autopilot and all the other numerous changes they've made to the Model S already. They are continually refreshing the Model S.
 

scottm

Legacy account
Jun 13, 2014
3,070
2,348
Canada
careful for what you ask for.... the new 2016 Volt... dull styling compared to the more handsome and easily identifiable previous generation Volt

Nice array of after market touches on pictures of Model S in this thread!

From top to bottom, my thoughts:

Saleen - very close to what Tesla should have released day 1. Still needs nose work tho. Ditch the nostrils on the hood.

Unplugged Light Blue - Lexus-Ferrari confused front end

Revo - very classy AMG like treatments of a white car. Body color the door pulls in white too. What would a white fine pinstripe on tires look like?

Unplugged Grey - rice ground fx

Black - more fx, but better in black because not as noticeable. I'm OK with this one.



Overall, fx alone are not new body style. And a new nosecone is similar. Anybody can do that.

If you don't dent a metal panel, it doesn't count as a re-worked style.
 

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
220
Livermore CA
Ok, who is Apple in your scenario? MB, BMW? I think you've got it backwards.

Apple is a great example of getting it right...then wrong...then right again...they were all but dead before they branched out and reinvented themselves. MSFT exists largely because of Apple's original ideas that they made better for the PC market...now MSFT is lagging behind and playing catch up. My only point is being in innovator is a constant and iterative process. And those that say we got it right and then sit on it are quickly looking at the rear end of those that were previously sitting behind them in the market.
 

ilg

Some guy on the Internet.
Feb 8, 2013
132
207
Maryland
Well, if your only definition of success is "just like Apple," I'm not sure Tesla will ever qualify. Apple products are 40-50% design/performance and about 50-60% marketing hype.

I much prefer Tesla's 99% design/performance 1% hype (primarily from Elon's Twitter account).
 

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
220
Livermore CA
Well, if your only definition of success is "just like Apple," I'm not sure Tesla will ever qualify. Apple products are 40-50% design/performance and about 50-60% marketing hype.

I much prefer Tesla's 99% design/performance 1% hype (primarily from Elon's Twitter account).

You missed the point - I'm not comparing them to any company at all...its the basics of a free market that Im pointing out. That said, if you have an Apple device, my guess is that you aren't using a 6 year old iPod...you either aren't a supporter, or you are using something current.
 

Larry Chanin

President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts
Moderator
Aug 22, 2011
4,937
808
Sarasota, Florida
I think to stay relevant its going to have to slightly augment its design before the 3. There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address. Tesla is going to get squeezed everywhere, and the brand, other than perhaps the people on this site is still largely misunderstood. As such, I suspect that they will have to do some sort of refresh.

I don't think its going to have to be much - perhaps LED front lights and different wheel packages or even an "M"/"AMG" version. It will require minimal effort as compared to a redesign and will be important in order for it to stay cutting edge.

As was pointed out Tesla has been augmenting continually ever since the Model S was first released. They've even come out with new wheel designs.

However, it's fair to say that such minor things as LEDs, wheel packages and other cosmetic changes won't be the things that keep the Model S cutting edge as you put it. It will be the continuing introduction of new inovative technologies such as dual motors, AutoPilot, etc.

I'm afraid I don't follow how your remark "There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address", relates to the topic of this thread, Model S Body Refresh Coming in Sept/Oct?

Whether or not Tesla makes cosmetic changes to the Model S before the release of the Model 3, as you recommend, has no bearing on the competition it will face in developing the Model 3.

Larry
 

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
220
Livermore CA
As was pointed out Tesla has been augmenting continually ever since the Model S was first released. They've even come out with new wheel designs.

However, it's fair to say that such minor things as LEDs, wheel packages and other cosmetic changes won't be the things that keep the Model S cutting edge as you put it. It will be the continuing introduction of new inovative technologies such as dual motors, AutoPilot, etc.

I'm afraid I don't follow how your remark "There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address", relates to the topic of this thread, Model S Body Refresh Coming in Sept/Oct?

Whether or not Tesla makes cosmetic changes to the Model S before the release of the Model 3, as you recommend, has no bearing on the competition it will face in developing the Model 3.

Larry

Well, first dissecting the individual comments seems to have lost the spirit of my thoughts...which was TM needs to continue to innovate (this includes aesthetics). The car is beautiful no doubt; its one of the key reasons that I bought it form AND functional beauty. That said, if it sits for another 3 years before it gets a face lift or a refresh it will lose its position as an innovator. I've heard several times "they all look the same" meant to be a negative statement...Those in the know understand that there are a lot of changes under the hood that are ongoing but the general public isn't aware...and with no visual queues, that doesn't effectively sell cars.

While TM does march to the beat of their own drum, they are selling to a market that has been trained for decades by other auto manufactures to be drawn to styling queues that refresh the platform with things as simple as those things that I mentioned earlier (light changes; wheels; sport package etc).

My point in referencing the 3 is twofold. First, the notion that some of the posts are referencing it as the reason for TM to leave the MS alone because they are working hard on 3...that doesn't make sense to me - the MS rolling advertising for TM's superior products (and in many cases how a consumer is introduced to TM). Secondly, and more importantly, its an example of how fast the market is moving to erode TM's market share in the E category - there wasn't much of anything in the 200 mile range category, now here comes a car that seems to have parity with the 3 and is going to beat TM to market. So, how sensitive TM is to how the public is used to buying cars will matter. So, its my view that how the public sees the MS will have a significant bearing on how well the 3 is received.
 

Larry Chanin

President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts
Moderator
Aug 22, 2011
4,937
808
Sarasota, Florida
Well, first dissecting the individual comments seems to have lost the spirit of my thoughts...which was TM needs to continue to innovate (this includes aesthetics). The car is beautiful no doubt; its one of the key reasons that I bought it form AND functional beauty. That said, if it sits for another 3 years before it gets a face lift or a refresh it will lose its position as an innovator. I've heard several times "they all look the same" meant to be a negative statement...Those in the know understand that there are a lot of changes under the hood that are ongoing but the general public isn't aware...and with no visual queues, that doesn't effectively sell cars.

While TM does march to the beat of their own drum, they are selling to a market that has been trained for decades by other auto manufactures to be drawn to styling queues that refresh the platform with things as simple as those things that I mentioned earlier (light changes; wheels; sport package etc).

Thanks for the clarification.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. A cosmetic face lift in the form of light changes, wheels and a sport package are not going to keep the competition at bay. Tesla needs to do what it has already been doing in terms of constant technological innovation.

What is important is to be the first to produce a compelling yet affordable mass market car that has a range of 200+ miles. To do that Tesla can't afford to be distracted by face lifts that take their eye off the ball.

My point in referencing the 3 is twofold. First, the notion that some of the posts are referencing it as the reason for TM to leave the MS alone because they are working hard on 3...that doesn't make sense to me - the MS rolling advertising for TM's superior products (and in many cases how a consumer is introduced to TM). Secondly, and more importantly, its an example of how fast the market is moving to erode TM's market share in the E category - there wasn't much of anything in the 200 mile range category, now here comes a car that seems to have parity with the 3 and is going to beat TM to market. So, how sensitive TM is to how the public is used to buying cars will matter. So, its my view that how the public sees the MS will have a significant bearing on how well the 3 is received.

I agree that the Model S is setting the Brand image, but as I stated earlier this is not done via minor cosmetic face lifting, but rather by true technological innovation.

Continuing off-topic for a second, it is true others are claiming that they intend to develop an affordable, 200+ mile, mass market market EV, but talk is cheap. As I write this Tesla is actually building the Gigafactory. What are they doing to assure mass market battery supply? Building concept vehicles is not going to get it. GM, Ford, Nissan, VW etc., no doubt have the means to design and build a 200+ mile EV, but I doubt is that they will be the first to do it in mass market numbers. GM may be toying with concept vehicles, but without following Tesla's aggressive lead to address supply issues they probably will only have enough battery capacity to produce a total of around 20,000 cars a year if they didn't already need those batteries to supply to the Volt, ELR and Spark. That is not the mass market. They need enough batteries to supply 100's of thousands of affordable cars per year. Anything else is just a niche market, or worse yet, merely "marketing speak" cars.

So as I said earlier, and from your earlier remarks you probably agree, Tesla needs to get going on picking up the pace on developing the Model 3.

It doesn't need cosmetic exercises directed toward the Model S to distract from that all-important objective.

Larry
 

scottm

Legacy account
Jun 13, 2014
3,070
2,348
Canada
Re-design threads are full of ... well, design discussion, and pictures, and aesthetic comments.

...not so much about battery supply, industry theories, electronics, etc. (Other threads for that please)

PHOTOSHOP the ideal Next-S and paste your guess or suggestion here!
 

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