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Model S Brake & Accelerator Pedal Positions
- Thread starter efusco
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
mknox
Well-Known Member
So, I went to my nearby Tesla store and sat in a car with my winter boots on. While the Tesla rep in the passenger seat was obsessing over the stereo, I played around with my feet on the pedals and found I had no problem hitting the pedal I wanted, and without stepping on both. Now, this was in a non-moving car and under driving conditions, it might be different, but it seemed okay to me. I also noted that the brake pedal is higher than the accelerator, but not as high as my current car is by comparison.
After returning home today, I did a couple of experiments.
The first thing I did was to play around with how the car responds to having both pedals pressed. I was curious to know whether two-footed technique would work on hills, since I've noticed that the car really rolls backwards if you don't use creep, and I was a little afraid that I would bump another car when parking on an incline or the like. I'm pleased to say that if you start with your left foot on the brake and depress the accelerator with your right slightly, that the car will beep and alert you to the dual pedal press, but if you simply release the brake at that point, you will begin to move forward without rolling back. Yay.
Next I actually looked at how my foot lands on the pedals. I took pictures which I've attached below. I imagine that everybody's foot positions vary a bit, but this is pretty much how I've always driven with my 12-1/2 2E battleship shoes. My heel is roughly under the brake, and my foot swivels to the right to hit the accelerator, or more upright to get the brake. I have adequate clearance on the Model S pedals.
The first thing I did was to play around with how the car responds to having both pedals pressed. I was curious to know whether two-footed technique would work on hills, since I've noticed that the car really rolls backwards if you don't use creep, and I was a little afraid that I would bump another car when parking on an incline or the like. I'm pleased to say that if you start with your left foot on the brake and depress the accelerator with your right slightly, that the car will beep and alert you to the dual pedal press, but if you simply release the brake at that point, you will begin to move forward without rolling back. Yay.
Next I actually looked at how my foot lands on the pedals. I took pictures which I've attached below. I imagine that everybody's foot positions vary a bit, but this is pretty much how I've always driven with my 12-1/2 2E battleship shoes. My heel is roughly under the brake, and my foot swivels to the right to hit the accelerator, or more upright to get the brake. I have adequate clearance on the Model S pedals.
DrTaras
R254->R725->S->X->M3->M3P-->R2020?
I concur with you DrComputer. Until I hopped on this TMC thread, I thought I was alone (size 10). I think the off-set is the answer.
If you have not experienced this, please remember Carl Sagan's, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
As for history repeating itself, did we learn anything from the unintended acceleration of the Audi 5000?
mknox
Well-Known Member
As for history repeating itself, did we learn anything from the unintended acceleration of the Audi 5000?
Most modern cars have some sort of fuel shut-off or other means to limit the throttle if both pedals are mashed down. Toyota learned the hard way to implement this in their cars. I would have to think Tesla has thought this through and limits throttle when the brake is pressed at the same time. They do already pop up a warning (I believe).
This happens to me on a regular basis. So far it hasn't caused any real problems, but it is disconcerting. In addition to increasing the pedal offset front-to-rear, I think the brake pedal should move left a skosh: there just isn't enough room between the right edge of the brake pedal and the wall of the foot well next to the accelerator, at least not for my 11-1/2 D shoes.
Data points:
I've had the simultaneous brake/throttle happen twice in the first few days of driving. While giving test drives the other night, 1 of the 4 folks had it happen as well. My foot position is sort of opposite of MikeK's above. His is straight on for the brake, slanted for the gas. I'm the other way. I'm straight on for the gas, then pivot to slant it over for the brake.
If I were to give an opinion, something I've become incredibly reticent to do on this forum, I'd hazard a guess that folks that pivot are more likely to press both pedals because the edge of their pivoted foot just lightly overlaps the pedal they're shifting away from. Folks, such as my wife, who lift their foot completely and move it to the other pedal wouldn't likely ever have this happen.
I've had the simultaneous brake/throttle happen twice in the first few days of driving. While giving test drives the other night, 1 of the 4 folks had it happen as well. My foot position is sort of opposite of MikeK's above. His is straight on for the brake, slanted for the gas. I'm the other way. I'm straight on for the gas, then pivot to slant it over for the brake.
If I were to give an opinion, something I've become incredibly reticent to do on this forum, I'd hazard a guess that folks that pivot are more likely to press both pedals because the edge of their pivoted foot just lightly overlaps the pedal they're shifting away from. Folks, such as my wife, who lift their foot completely and move it to the other pedal wouldn't likely ever have this happen.
mnx
2018 M3P
Interesting. I find it much easier to pivot to the right than the left so my positions are similar to MikeK's. I've never had an issue with pedals in any car. Although I've only had the 15min test drive in the Model S...
DrComputer
TeslaClubLA President
I'm sure there is an engineer at Tesla reading this forum and saying to his co-workers "See, I told you so! People are going to notice that the pedals are too close. You guys thought it was just me. Haa! Now do we fix it?"
mknox
Well-Known Member
I've had no problems with two test drives and also with my "test" in the Toronto Store with my winter boots on. I'll take that as meaning I must have the same shoe size and driving style as Elon!
I'm a heel-toe manual driver and I've never gotten the two pedal warning, even with bulky winter boots. With the S, I also rarely use the brake pedal at all, but I had to specifically try to get the warning to pop up in order to verify its existence. Perhaps this explains so many recalls from other car companies over recent years if it is commonplace with some drivers and not others.
Agreed, and I've had 1,000 miles behind the wheel of my Model S, including some time driving in heavy snow boots. I like the placement, quite a lot -- feels completely natural. So, clearly, this is a design choice that isn't uniformly good or bad.
In light of the fact that it's all "fly by wire," I wonder if Tesla could mount the brake pedal in such a way to allow it to shift left/right and forward/back to accommodate different drivers' preferences? They've done it for the steering column; the brake pedal has to be simpler.
I second this notion. As one who is vertically challenged, the ability to move the pedals around would be very nice to have. Even better if their positions can be remembered by the driver profile just like the seat position is.
Looks like Ford had (has?) this feature:
Power Adjustable Pedals Are A Fantastic Feature - New Car Buying Guide
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My oldNissan Murano had adjustable pedals, but they moved together. It appeared that they implemented this rather than have an extendable steering wheel - had pretty much an identical effect on the steering position.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Wow, surprised so many people here are saying this is such a minor issue. Almost had a very major accident today because of this issue. Happened to me twice since I got the car, both times, when pivoting from accelerator to brake pedal when I needed to stop in a hurry-- well the car didn't stop like it was supposed to and I had to swerve out of my lane to avoid hitting the car in front of me. Never really experienced this in any other car before. And I'm a little bit worried about the issue as it only seems to occur at the worst possible time for me. I would like the accelerator to just be flat out disabled when I press the brake pedal as I would never want to have both going at the same time anyway... Surely that could be a software switch?
mnx
2018 M3P
I forgot about this thread, until the most recent post....
Now that I've had my car a few months I can positively say it isn't an issue for me. I've never accidentally hit both pedals at the same time.
Now that I've had my car a few months I can positively say it isn't an issue for me. I've never accidentally hit both pedals at the same time.
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Over 2000 miles with 13 4E feet. Ive never seen it accidentally. Just the one time (after reading this thread) when I made it happen on purpose just to make sure it happened.:smile:
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