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Model S Decimates Large Premium/Luxury Car Market

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
7,134
9,183
Seattle area, WA
Does that mean your only going to buy used Teslas from here on out?
Very perceptive parsing of what I wrote. :) Yes, I wrote it that way because I might consider a used Model S for my son in about a year, if I can pick up an old S85 or S75D in the $20K's. It is a very safe car, which is a high priority for me (he'll be driving his sister around to activities too), and EV which is also something I would prefer for him too. Also, the old one seems to hold up better than the new ones (at least in the small sample of 4 MS we owned between 2013 and 2018) and the used ones would have all factory issues already corrected (every one of the 4 MS we has required some TLC from SC's after delivery, the newer ones more than the older ones). We already have charging for Tesla setup at home too. I also learned how to do some work around the car, having taken mine apart to add accessories, fix squeeks and rattles, etc, so if needed I can swap parts faster than a wait for a service appointment (hence warranty not so important). All that said, I will look at all available options at the time. With full incentives, a new Bolt or any of the other upcoming EV's with full federal rebate might actually be a better choice at a similar price point, as long as they have full 5 star safety rating, EV with 200+ mile range, it's in the running. And the answer to your next question is no, he won't need more than 200 miles a day range, or a supercharger network. If I get an old S85, it will have free supercharing as a nice bonus, maybe useful when he goes off to collage. Oh, side thing, a browser not working on a $100K car I pick up for $20K, or a screen yellowing, is not as annoying - you expect some things to not be perfect in a used car.
 
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Very perceptive parsing of what I wrote. :) Yes, I wrote it that way because I might consider a used Model S for my son in about a year, if I can pick up an old S85 or S75D in the $20K's. It is a very safe car, which is a high priority for me (he'll be driving his sister around to activities too), and EV which is also something I would prefer for him too. Also, the old one seems to hold up better than the new ones (at least in the small sample of 4 MS we owned between 2013 and 2018) and the used ones would have all factory issues already corrected (every one of the 4 MS we has required some TLC from SC's after delivery, the newer ones more than the older ones). We already have charging for Tesla setup at home too. I also learned how to do some work around the car, having taken mine apart to add accessories, fix squeeks and rattles, etc, so if needed I can swap parts faster than a wait for a service appointment (hence warranty not so important). All that said, I will look at all available options at the time. With full incentives, a new Bolt or any of the other upcoming EV's with full federal rebate might actually be a better choice at a similar price point, as long as they have full 5 star safety rating, EV with 200+ mile range, it's in the running. And the answer to your next question is no, he won't need more than 200 miles a day range, or a supercharger network. If I get an old S85, it will have free supercharing as a nice bonus, maybe useful when he goes off to collage. Oh, side thing, a browser not working on a $100K car I pick up for $20K, or a screen yellowing, is not as annoying - you expect some things to not be perfect in a used car.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I'm not normally a new car buyer anyway. Tesla lust just got the best of me. Me and my two teen drivers would probably each have their own used $8,000 Leafs if it wasn't for concerns about crash safety. I'm still happy with my Model S and plan on keeping it for the next 20 years. It will be interesting to see how that goes.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
7,134
9,183
Seattle area, WA
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I'm not normally a new car buyer anyway. Tesla lust just got the best of me. Me and my two teen drivers would probably each have their own used $8,000 Leafs if it wasn't for concerns about crash safety. I'm still happy with my Model S and plan on keeping it for the next 20 years. It will be interesting to see how that goes.
I've been a new car buyer since I was a teenager, only my first 2 cars were not new (and yes, it is possible to do great deals on base model civics and such to get a new car every 2 years and pay for it with a part time job - I paid for all my own cars, no rich parents or uncles). If it wasn't for Tesla antics I would be in a new P100D now.
 
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I've been a new car buyer since I was a teenager, only my first 2 cars were not new (and yes, it is possible to do great deals on base model civics and such to get a new car every 2 years and pay for it with a part time job - I paid for all my own cars, no rich parents or uncles). If it wasn't for Tesla antics I would be in a new P100D now.

Some would say if not for "Tesla Antics" Tesla would not exist and we wouldn't have these amazing cars :D:p:rolleyes:

Having said that, I am closely following the situation with the defective screens that yellow and I hope they do the right thing.
 

croman

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2016
5,296
8,311
Chicago, IL
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I'm not normally a new car buyer anyway. Tesla lust just got the best of me. Me and my two teen drivers would probably each have their own used $8,000 Leafs if it wasn't for concerns about crash safety. I'm still happy with my Model S and plan on keeping it for the next 20 years. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

I can attest to the fact leafs are safer than most. My mom was driving my car and rear ended by a Ford expedition going 45mph. She only needed minor rehab because her foot was on the brake at a red light. Car got only 800 bucks in damage and Ford driver was teen texting and went to hospital with head and arm injuries and car was totaled. Teen was cited for reckless driving causing injury. Leaf still runs great 12 bars of range 56k miles.
 
I can attest to the fact leafs are safer than most. My mom was driving my car and rear ended by a Ford expedition going 45mph. She only needed minor rehab because her foot was on the brake at a red light. Car got only 800 bucks in damage and Ford driver was teen texting and went to hospital with head and arm injuries and car was totaled. Teen was cited for reckless driving causing injury. Leaf still runs great 12 bars of range 56k miles.
I've wondered if a Leaf might possibly be safer than the 2004 Lexus ES 330 that my son drives. It's hard to tell for sure. I was basing my safety concerns on the crash test video and the fact that it's similar to a Nissan Versa. The Versa is known to have one of the highest death rates. I'm sure it's probably safer than a Versa, but also crash safety doesn't seem to be of great concern to Nissan if they have one of the least safe cars on the road.
 

croman

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2016
5,296
8,311
Chicago, IL
I've wondered if a Leaf might possibly be safer than the 2004 Lexus ES 330 that my son drives. It's hard to tell for sure. I was basing my safety concerns on the crash test video and the fact that it's similar to a Nissan Versa. The Versa is known to have one of the highest death rates. I'm sure it's probably safer than a Versa, but also crash safety doesn't seem to be of great concern to Nissan if they have one of the least safe cars on the road.

It's definitely safer. Modern cars are way way safer. My leaf is a 2014. A whole decade newer.

I wouldn't base anything on the wrong model. They've already crash tested the leaf and you can search for the particular results. It's no model S but it's very safe. Better than most cars it's size.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
7,134
9,183
Seattle area, WA
Some would say if not for "Tesla Antics" Tesla would not exist and we wouldn't have these amazing cars :D:p:rolleyes:
Not exactly, Tesla was doing great until about 2016. Yellow screens are just the latest, but all other issues, including parts and service, quality issues (both production and design, as some parts have actual design flaws, like the yellowing screens, or the mirror assemblies back in 2017), unfulfilled promises, declining UX - all these contribute to me no longer craving a new Tesla.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
7,134
9,183
Seattle area, WA
I've wondered if a Leaf might possibly be safer than the 2004 Lexus ES 330 that my son drives. It's hard to tell for sure. I was basing my safety concerns on the crash test video and the fact that it's similar to a Nissan Versa. The Versa is known to have one of the highest death rates. I'm sure it's probably safer than a Versa, but also crash safety doesn't seem to be of great concern to Nissan if they have one of the least safe cars on the road.
2011 Leaf (since you were talking $8K Leaf): 5 star overall, 4 start frontal, 5 star side, 4 star rollover

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2011/NISSAN/LEAF/5%252520HB/FWD
2011 Nissan Leaf 4-door hatchback
 

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So you guys think that the likelihood of serious injury or death might be higher in a 2004 ES 330/Camry than in a Leaf? Or maybe about the same? The ES does have side airbags and stability control. Range isn't much of an issue, so a Leaf could definitely take the place of the Lexus.

Well, the emissions from that ES330/Camry certainly can cause injury or death...
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
7,134
9,183
Seattle area, WA
So you guys think that the likelihood of serious injury or death might be higher in a 2004 ES 330/Camry than in a Leaf? Or maybe about the same? The ES does have side airbags and stability control. Range isn't much of an issue, so a Leaf could definitely take the place of the Lexus.
Compare their safety ratings with NHTSA and IIHS, that will tell you what they "think", based on tests and insurance claims.
 

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