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Wiki Model S Delivery Update

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I've done that too. The Taycan is just too expensive for what you're getting.
I'd rather buy a Plaid S and a used 2015-ish 911 for the same cumulative price.

Teslas are value cars - but they aren't cheap, imo. If you get in a 2021 Model 3, it is soft touch material everywhere with the sound dampening significantly improved. There's no car on the market that has the performance, efficiency or quality. With ICE - you either choose performance over MPGs or MPGs over performance. Most $30-40k gas cars are just non-stop hard plastics as well.

No matter how you shake it - legacy OEMs are just behind. That's why they have less range, less performance and are 50%+ more expensive. You're paying for their extremely high R&D costs. I do hope and expect some of them will get there - but also wouldn't mind if some of them get replaced by another company that innovates - say a Lucid or Rivian. Some of these legacy OEMs are barely serving a purpose anymore.
 
Absolutely insane that we’re heading into the Q1 earnings call without a single customer delivery.

Could you imagine if Elon had straight up said back in January “no VINs Q1” or “we might be able to pull some together by July”?

Also - at this point I could care less what he says about it on the call. Apparently we can’t trust any updates to be based in reality anyway.
 
Porsche is a vanity joke - not a real competitor in the EV market.
Porsche is the only real competitor to Tesla. They are in a completely different market segment though. Their real world range is very comparable to Tesla's regardless of what the made up EPA ratings say. And their interior is leaps and bounds ahead as well as their build quailty. Not to mention their customer service...
 
Absolutely insane that we’re heading into the Q1 earnings call without a single customer delivery.

Could you imagine if Elon had straight up said back in January “no VINs Q1” or “we might be able to pull some together by July”?

Also - at this point I could care less what he says about it on the call. Apparently we can’t trust any updates to be based in reality anyway.
What happen to the employees who were working on the Model S and Model X assembly line?

Are they still paid doing some training or are they in furlough since the 2020 December break?
 
Porsche is the only real competitor to Tesla. They are in a completely different market segment though. Their real world range is very comparable to Tesla's regardless of what the made up EPA ratings say. And their interior is leaps and bounds ahead as well as their build quailty. Not to mention their customer service...
I still want to see someone confirm this with a direct comparison of both of their longest range trims. I feel like the range tests on the Porsche have often been with range friendly wheels, while a lot of S tests end up with performance wheels.
 
I still want to see someone confirm this with a direct comparison of both of their longest range trims. I feel like the range tests on the Porsche have often been with range friendly wheels, while a lot of S tests end up with performance wheels.
I've got 21" turbines and 19" tempest for my P100D and it really doesn't make a significant difference in real life. A couple percent is not going to be a make or break on one car vs the other.
 
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I still want to see someone confirm this with a direct comparison of both of their longest range trims. I feel like the range tests on the Porsche have often been with range friendly wheels, while a lot of S tests end up with performance wheels.

Here you go:
 
I still want to see someone confirm this with a direct comparison of both of their longest range trims. I feel like the range tests on the Porsche have often been with range friendly wheels, while a lot of S tests end up with performance wheels.
Indeed Björn has already tested it with 19" wheels. The difference in Wh/km or Wh/mile to the MS Raven with 19" wheels is just below 5% at 55mph or 75mph respectively. 5% is still not insignificant from my point of view.


 
I still don't understand that IF the Taycan's real world performance is roughly ~300 miles per charge, why did the chop off 30% of that? Did they decide to go with the absolute worse case scenario (winter, heat on high)?

Assuming the math is the same, the LR Model S would have roughly 80-90 miles more, right? That's a huge difference. The Plaid should should also beat it 0-60, qtr mile and with a decent amount of range.
 
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Here you go:
That is exactly the kind of test that I complained about. :) I understand why they do it (it isn't easy to get every trim of every vehicle), but it tested the S P100D that is rated for 326 miles and not the one rated for 400+. If we could safely extrapolate from that, the LR S would get almost 400 miles and easily beat the Taycan.
 
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Indeed Björn has already tested it with 19" wheels. The difference in Wh/km or Wh/mile to the MS Raven with 19" wheels is just below 5% at 55mph or 75mph respectively. 5% is still not insignificant from my point of view.
Yeah, but Bjorn hasn't done similar tests with the Taycan, right? I'm not sure why he doesn't have a Taycan 1000km video, but I haven't seen one.

I agree that there are cases where even 5% can be fairly significant.
 
I still want to see someone confirm this with a direct comparison of both of their longest range trims. I feel like the range tests on the Porsche have often been with range friendly wheels, while a lot of S tests end up with performance wheels.
This is standard range test done by Edmunds for various EVs, see for yourself

 
I really wish they would do high and low tests.

For example, driving 80 mph with the AC on in 100 degree weather. Driving 80 mph with heater on in freezing weather. Driving 80 mph in fair weather (70-80 degrees).

And on the low end, driving 55 mph with the same parameters above. This would really help owners understand all of the different outcomes to expect with their EV. EPA, WLTP, the Edmunds test, it's an OK gauge, but definitely not a for sure thing.

What I am just getting at here is, I think it's time the EPA and other organizations evolve with the new reality of EVs. Two numbers (city/highway) don't work anymore. Likely, we need at least 4. Cold weather perf, hot weather perf, highway and city.
 
That is exactly the kind of test that I complained about. :) I understand why they do it (it isn't easy to get every trim of every vehicle), but it tested the S P100D that is rated for 326 miles and not the one rated for 400+. If we could safely extrapolate from that, the LR S would get almost 400 miles and easily beat the Taycan.
Most reports indicate that the updates between the P100D and the 2020 Performance were mostly to city driving and don't have more than a percent or two effect on highway range.
 
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Yeah, but Bjorn hasn't done similar tests with the Taycan, right? I'm not sure why he doesn't have a Taycan 1000km video, but I haven't seen one.

I agree that there are cases where even 5% can be fairly significant.
You are right that he did not perform the 1000km test with the Taycan. Probably this was not allowed by the owners. The cost per km is huge for the Taycan.
What do you mean by similar tests? The two range tests that I linked above are very similar for MS Raven and Taycan 4S. I would always trust Björns tests and not Edmunds or others that are not necessarily unbiased.
 
This is standard range test done by Edmunds for various EVs, see for yourself

The initial Edmunds test ran the Tesla in the morning with temperatures about 15-25 fahrenheit colder than an afternoon test for the Porsche. I think they ran a second test with both cars at the same time, but the testing regimen did not appear to be scientific. Close enough to not misrepresent, but it would not pass a peer review in a science journal. Colder is not only harder on the battery, the air is denser and will reduce milage. I believe there were other inconsistencies, Rob Maurer did a deep dive sometime back.
 
A little off topic, but because the Taycan keeps coming up and people keep saying the S gives better performance..

I think one thing that people keep forgetting, re: Taycan, when they talk about performance, is that there's a lot more to performance than 0-60 acceleration, or even drag times on a quarter mile. The Taycan can be expected to hit a corner much better than a Model S - it's so much nimbler. Hell, the Model 3 is probably a better track car than the Model S despite the slower acceleration.

If you're buying the Model S because you want a track car, you're missing the point. If you're buying the Taycan because you want a daily driver, you're missing the point.

The Model S is king because it can get moving pretty quickly, but also packs a crazy 28 cu ft of cargo space, on top of top-of-the-line infotainment. The Taycan is king because it was designed with the track in mind, and puts luxury / quality, fit, and finish first. They're somewhat interchangeable cars, but not really.

Think of it this way: wouldn't it be strange if someone you knew was torn between an Audi A4 and a Corvette Stingray?

EDIT: Us lumping the Taycan and Model S together, just because they're both EVs, feels a lot like that scene in Silicon Valley, where Carla complains that men in tech companies will always try to force women in tech companies to be friends, even if they're very different. The ensuing scene where Jared tries to get Monica and Carla to be friends seems a lot like us trying to compare the Taycan and the Model S.
 
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