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Model S design presentation

Discussion in 'Model S' started by doug, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  2. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I watched this presentation (~74 min). Very interesting. Think the 1+ years until I imagine things get locked down before production starts will hopefully give them enough time to iron out things and make this car truly unique.
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Anyone care to summarize and key points/topics? I just don't know that I can sustain my attention for 74 min, I started it, but just couldn't keep going.
     
  4. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    It gets pretty interesting after 20 minutes or so. I haven't reached the end yet - stopping and starting as I have time.
     
  5. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    #5 Norbert, Oct 21, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
    Some points for those with little time:

    - Model S is meant to be very upgradable, and although this wasn't said directly, this seems to include future-tech battery upgrades

    - Model S sport version has a "target performance" of 4.4 sec 0-60 (vs 5.7 sec standard), and the Model S platform will also be used for a new Roadster, in addition to a variety of other form factors (sedan, coupe, crossover, utility, station wagon like).

    - Roadsters (it seemed, including existing ones) will also get the 45 min quick charge option/upgrade

    - the Model S virtual dashboard will be able to run a number of various applications beyond the obvious, (perhaps) including third-party apps.

    - apparently no replacement wheel (without reason given), but lots of space

    - some more info and last, but not least, a short but nice video of ModelS on a country road, and some schematic diagrams of the battery and motor placement for both Roadster and Model S.
     
  6. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Great find Doug,


    Lot's of juicy tidbits.

    45 Minute charging coming to Roadster too.

    Model S new or confirmed.

    Tiny illustrations of the coupe, crossover, and SUV on the Model S platform.
    The (my) next-gen Roadster is also built from the Model S platform.

    Sport version of the Model S to do 0-60 in 4.4 secs

    Batteries all interchangeable.

    Tesla to built swap stations (like on the way to Vegas)

    Liquid cooled motor

    Cool to see interiors of competitors...
    >PAUSED<
     
  7. Tim

    Tim Member

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    #7 Tim, Oct 21, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
    Very interesting presentation. Lots of new details in slides. I was particularly interested in the powertrain and chassis schematic slides(about 18 minutes in I think). 25% improvement in battery mass efficiency? Does that mean they are targeting roughly 145wh/kg all in? The new skateboard chassis is excellent. I remember GM showing off a similar one a few years ago, but this looks like an improvement on that. The chassis and the use of the infotainment screen should really help Tesla in rapid design development. I think that could be a huge competitive advantage for them vis a vis the legacy auto companies going forward. Not to mention the cost savings in leveraging this for future cars. It really goes to show how much design freedom they have when they aren't tethered to shoehorning an ev powertrain in an ice chassis. Though I suppose the same argument/drawbacks could be made for body on frame vs unibody so maybe this is just a new version of an old idea.

    Use of new laminations in motor is good - I'm hoping they go for amorphous material ala metglas rather than electrical steel. Lower iron losses mean less heat, higher continuous power rating and better efficiency, though heat dissipation is key. Hopefully they get their die-cast copper machining to work well at their new plant which should lower cost. I think the current motor still uses ACpropulsion's brazed copper construction, but I might be wrong.

    Looks like powertrain is all water-cooled which should hopefully eliminate all the thermal problems current roadster owners experience during hard driving. I was hoping to see that they'd look to replace the IGBTs with SiC based ones, but cost was probably an issue. Maybe they will - the slides didn't say anything other than the PEM is water cooled, which I think could have been eliminated with new power electronics.

    Overall, mighty impressed. Current development of infotainment software looks really busy to me, but not too worried about that. It's software that's designed to be skinned so we won't be stuck with some crappy idrive interface.

    While watching the video I kept thinking about a NY times article published a while ago with auto industry naysayers who doubted Tesla's ability to engineer the Model S with promised specs(notably 300 mile range). I'm more confident than ever that they'll be eating crow now.
     
  8. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  9. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Here are a few of the slides:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=442&stc=1&d=1256195840.jpg
    attachment.php?attachmentid=438&stc=1&d=1256195840.jpg
    attachment.php?attachmentid=441&stc=1&d=1256195799.jpg
    attachment.php?attachmentid=439&stc=1&d=1256195766.jpg
    attachment.php?attachmentid=440&stc=1&d=1256195778.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  10. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    There's also this presentation which follows the previous one:

    MAX 2009 Design - Developing the Technology in the Tesla Model S | Adobe TV
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I hadn't heard them mention the sport model before. Is there any indication of if it'll be out in time for the Signature Series models? I can't imagine it would be that hard for them to do (just use the hand wound motor, right)? Thanks.
     
  12. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Model S Sport

    Well, I e-mailed Tesla and it looks like the Model S Sport isn't planned until 3rd or 4th model year. Oh well. 5.7sec is still pretty fast.
     
  13. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Somehow I thought it would come out 2-3 months later, with AWD and 4 wheel regen. Maybe if there is enough demand?
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #15 vfx, Oct 23, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
    I have two problems with the touch screen idea. Feel and finding.

    I have the Tesla Homelink activated to remotely trigger an opening motor as I approach. The problem is, that as I'm driving I need to use more than one finger to push the Homelink button.

    I reach my hand down, rest three fingers, the pinky, ring and middle, on the lower lip of the VDS bezel. That stabaizes my outstretched arm as my index finger goes in to punch the Homelink button. If I don't do that, then the odds are 25 percent that I will hit an ajoining button or a non funtioning area of the screen. If it were a protruding or textured button/switch I could lightly drag my finger across a whole row of buttons braille-style counting them from a known start point and push the one that is the final count or that has had a specific texture-feel added to it.

    Worth pointing out that the screen-change arrows are on the corners so I can single-finger-stabilize by setting my finger in the protruding corners of the frame bezel for guiding my finger in pool cue style.

    I just can't see how this screen thing will work at minimum without "resting" places designed for other fingers. Of course, this will eat up valuable screen real estate but if you doubt me, try mounting your Iphone at arm's length in your car and try to program it at inconvient times like when turn steering, leaving a stoplight, navigating a bumpy road, pulling into a parking lot. all while talking with someone in the back seat... I guarantee you that you will resort to the OFR "Other Finger Rest" technique.

    I hope when they are testing with customers that the have the seating, 17"screen and an interlocked steering wheel mounted to a motion base and a surround video screen simulator to test under real world driving multi tasking foot, arms, distraction, motion conditions.
    Maybe an non-GM cheapo version mounts the whole thing plus video cameras to a truck or trailer while it drives around a road course as testers ask the customer to perform a series of tests.

    This science has been covered by car makers, aircraft manufactures, military contractors, NASA, Universities, etc, Buttons and switches are not just about layout but have a specific feel to them such that you can find them in a dark an bumpy ride. The flat screen seems on the face of it, counter to that thinking. I have a few ideas that might work so I hope Tesla folks are addressing these issues.
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  16. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I hope the steering wheel has the appropriate/enough buttons to make things easier. I also don't think having a few redundant hard buttons maybe below the screen would be that bad (maybe for radio, iPod, map...etc).
     
  17. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    They covered that in the second presentation. Basically that the steering wheel will definitely have buttons for the most often used stuff (volume, etc) and that they are unlikely to have any hard buttons around the main screen.

    One thing I found interesting about Franz's presentation is that they seem to be stepping back from the haptic feedback.
     
  18. Tim

    Tim Member

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    I've been thinking about something similar. I don't like adjusting controls on my center console. I've got to lean forward and take my eyes off the road. I really like having steering wheel buttons. However, I was thinking in the car today, that it would be really nice to replace those buttons with two touch pads on the wheel where you could control your infotainment system with thumb gestures ala an ipod or iphone. The screen feedback and menu system would be on the main dash display(the speedometer and tach) rather than the infotainment display. I'd love this sort of system. Plus it would have the benefit of programmability, and low cost in addition to the ergonomic and safety benefits. Don't know if this was covered in the second video - I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Re my OFR (other finger rest) post above.

    I see that they are relying on muscle memory for placement of modules and I agree that muscle memory is a good technique for getting your arm and hand in the ballpark It's something that I rely on at work. But it will not get you to finger precise placement on the screen. When they test I hope they get a wide age range from 16 year old first time kids to octogenarians -not just local college students.
     

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