Model S gets $3K price drop then a $2570 drop to $69420!

[TravelFree]

I am a shareholder too, but I don't think he lowered price for Lucid. I think it is a coincidence and he has a different play in his playbook.

This guy doesn't care about naysayers or SEC, why would he care about a car that is not out in 2 years?

First of all I don't believe in coincidence. Every action is just a reaction and a coincidence is an excuse when you don't know what's behind the action. But as CapeOne just said, it's seems pretty clear why he did it and when. I just don't believe it was one of his smartest moves.

But with an open mind I might assume there is a new Model S on the horizon and he has existing MS in inventory to unload before announcing the new look and features at a higher price. I'm not talking about Plaid as we know about that. I'm talking about an LR+ with all new interior and added tech features plus the new battery cells currently in the Model Y but 120KW size for 500+ miles range and 250KW charging. The latest monolith battery is not ready yet. OK I can dream.

 

[Tesomega]

If it wasn't Lucid then who/what was Elon challenging or referring to in his price reduction tweet when he said, "The gauntlet has been thrown down!" ?

Sell-Sell-Sell - Car Sales man mindset Did you the latest S and X volumes that have been produced?

 

[arghx7]

Following up on 2015 Model year Model S vs S Class Mercedes depreciation:

This is a quick search on the NADA website. Of course the numbers they give are oversimplified (doesn't account for variations in options and mileage, etc).

55k/105k = 52% residual value for the P85D

do the same calculation for the S600 and you get 39% residual and you also get 39% residual for the AMG (I'm assuming they are applying the same depreciation factor to both trims).

 

[Tesomega]

Following up on 2015 Model year Model S vs S Class Mercedes depreciation:

This is a quick search on the NADA website. Of course the numbers they give are oversimplified (doesn't account for variations in options and mileage, etc).

55k/105k = 52% residual value for the P85D

do the same calculation for the S600 and you get 39% residual and you also get 39% residual for the AMG (I'm assuming they are applying the same depreciation factor to both trims).

View attachment 599243

View attachment 599244

If some one is going to pay 50K for a 2015 P85D you are dreaming something..

 

[CapeOne]

Following up on 2015 Model year Model S vs S Class Mercedes depreciation:

This is a quick search on the NADA website. Of course the numbers they give are oversimplified (doesn't account for variations in options and mileage, etc).

I really don't think guides like NADA are that reliable when evaluating prices in the volatile EV market. NADA puts the retail value of a 2016 MS P85D with AP and 34k miles at around $72k.

Meanwhile, Tesla is offering same for just $55k.
2016 Model S | Tesla

 

[SO16]

If some one is going to pay 50K for a 2015 P85D you are dreaming something..

Will be interesting to see if any of these sell:

Only Used Tesla | A Place Exclusively Dedicated To Buying And Selling Used Teslas

 

[popgodazipa]

Model S pricing is way higher than where it should be anyway. If am in the market to buy a Model S, I will most likely go with BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class. They only cost $61k here in US (trim level with the same performance and 0-60 time as Model S). BMW and Mercedes are not electric, but you can't argue with the fact that they have significantly more luxury and higher quality than the Model S.

Sure you can...in fact their are dozen of reputable organizations that have and consistently rated S as tops in class.
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/hybrid-luxury

 

[ggnykk]

Yeah, not complaining. Already ordered before the 3k drop. All im saying is that the latest price drop seems to be US only.

Actually, I mis-spoke there. Including the price drop happened in May, Model S in Germany has dropped by $9800 euro. If NOT including the price drop in May, then Model S has dropped by $6000 euro. Yes, the lastest $2580 USD drop for Model S is for US only.

By the way, does pricing in Germany already included the VAT and tax? I always wonder why Tesla pricing is so much higher than in US.

 

[popgodazipa]

Totally agree - the features currently offered under "FSD" are nearly totally devoid of actual FSD'ing capability. They've been selling FSD since 2017 and I can't believe people buy it still. I guess the "but when it does come, it'll be super expensive so buy it now at the low low price of eight thousand dollars!!" works well on people.



I couldn't agree more. Tesla is great - the Model 3/Y are unbelievable deals for the types of cars they are - but the Model S is really not worth all that money whatsoever. It's just slightly bigger than the Model 3 while not being noticeably higher quality or more luxurious. It's still riding the cache from the time "Tesla Model S" represented something out of this world and unattainable. Won't last long - which is why its price has been coming down and down. And it'll come down more.



You don't even have to go to the 7 series for an example. Recently I bought a Mercedes E-350 from 2014 with 60,000 miles on it for $17,500 as I was inbetween cars and needed something while I decided on what actual car to buy.

Coming off of a P100D, I just could not believe how more comfortable the E350 was. The cabin looked and felt so much better, and the driving comfort was out of this world compared to the P100D. Sure, I get the P100D is supposed to be a 'sports car', but

a.) Other Model S's also lack comfort. Ludicrous Teslas are not less comfortable than the others.
b.) Usually sports cars lack comfort because they are sporty. Model S in no way can be characterized as sporty. It's a huge, heavy car with vague steering and doesn't handle well. So it's neither comfortable nor sporty, whereas the E350 was at least very comfortable.

The funny thing is the E350 just felt so much smoother and quieter than the Model S even though it's an ICE car with a slow transmission.

Once again, the Model 3 doesn't really need to be all that comfortable because of its price point, but at least it's quite a bit 'sportier'. Model 3 / Y are amazing cars and crazy good deals, and you'd have to be crazy to pass it up at that price point. I'm just talking about how outdated the Model S has become and how pointless it is becoming relative to other cars and Tesla's own lineup.

BTW, I sold the E350 to Carvana for a thousand dollars more than I paid for it, even including taxes and dealer fees

We get it, you hate Elon and the S but come on, none of what you're saying makes sense. Now IF Tesla can get rid of the quality issues with the Y AND add air suspension you may have a credible position. Until then trust those who know...

Tesla has always been a design leader, but some vehicles are better than others. Here's a ranking, from best to worst.

 

[ggnykk]

Yes, for sure! It is mandatory all over Europe (and many other contries around the world!) to always show to final consumer the "all-in" price, including every tax, duty, VAT, etc.etc.

Thanks for confirming. Even accouting for VAT and tax, Tesla is still priced so much higher than the same model in the US.
Same situation for smart phone, computer, all tech products etc. European get ripped off.

 

[ManuelV]

Actually, I mis-spoke there. Including the price drop happened in May, Model S in Germany has dropped by $9800 euro. If NOT including the price drop in May, then Model S has dropped by $6000 euro. Yes, the lastest $2580 USD drop for Model S is for US only.

By the way, does pricing in Germany already included the VAT and tax? I always wonder why Tesla pricing is so much higher than in US.

Allways includes VAT. 16% right now because of covid, will be back to 19% soon. That's actually why we had an additional price drop this year.

 

[ggnykk]

They offered $38.2k trade in with 41k miles. This is just a preliminary offer without pictures or any info about condition. Still deciding as I love the uncorked 75, but I really do need the range when I do road trips (1-2x per year).. so weighing the options but 70% leaning toward upgrade.

Tesla most likely have to adjust the trade-in value they gave you before the price cut of $5600. Most likely in the same amount downward.

 

[ggnykk]

Allways includes VAT. 16% right now because of covid, will be back to 19% soon. That's actually why we had an additional price drop this year.

It is expensive to buy anything in Europe. Tax rate for car in US is usually in the 10 to 11% range, depending on which states. New Jersey and one or two more states actually waive any tax for electric vehicle.

Although, I have noticed that Tesla Germany pricing is a LOT lower than France, Netherland, Belgium, Spain etc. Almost as low as pricing in Norway. I have heard that German have very negative view about EV, maybe that's why it need low price to attract sales.

 

[daktari]

No VAT or sales tax on electric cars in Norway, but 25% VAT + special sales taxes on cars for CO_2 and weight make BEVs competitive here.

"The gauntlet" might as well be a challenge from the stock market to sell 500.000 in a year.

 

[ManuelV]

"The gauntlet" 100% is Lucid. Otherwise the latest price drop would be global.

 

[ggnykk]

As a stock holder, I don't like the idea that Tesla lowered it price to do better than a fictitious car price that isn't even on the market yet. The Tesla MS is real and you can buy one and drive it away in 2 weeks. How long will you wait for a Lucid?

Better to just lower the price because of the company's lower costs. I can understand how a new Tesla buyer must feel if he just bought a few weeks ago with a long term car payment. I bought my MS in March but don't feel so bad because it's paid for with profits from the Tesla stock trading. Had I waited until now, the same configuration would be $10,000 less. I've had plenty of enjoyment but really glad it's not under 72 months financing.

I think Tesla pricing strategy is start with a super high price, so it limit the demand in order to match the initial low production rate, and to maxmize profit margin in the beginning. Then once the production ramps up (and cost per vehicle is lower), the price have to come down lets say $3000 dollars to attract a new set of buyer. Then once the production ramp even more, price will drop another $3000 to attract more buyer.

The company mission is to have low cost EV for the masses, so i think Tesla will continue to cut prices if possible. Or at least match the pricing of equivalent ICE cars in the same market segment.

 

[ggnykk]

Go check the actual sales prices of used S Class cars. The last 4 2016 S Classes I looked at had an average MSRP of around $120k and sold for and average of $37k. The 8 2016 Model S models had an average MSRP of around $100k and they sold for an average of $43k. None of the cars had branded titles.

which website you looked at for used Mercedes?

 

[ggnykk]

And I just noticed they took away the 4 year warranty on the used cars (but didn't adjust prices). Now its just an additional year of warranty.

So Tesla is trying to make it as hard as possible to sell their used car inventory? Not sure what Tesla is thinking. Anyone would just buy new at lower cost with new warranty.

 

[ggnykk]

Following up on 2015 Model year Model S vs S Class Mercedes depreciation:

This is a quick search on the NADA website. Of course the numbers they give are oversimplified (doesn't account for variations in options and mileage, etc).

55k/105k = 52% residual value for the P85D

do the same calculation for the S600 and you get 39% residual and you also get 39% residual for the AMG (I'm assuming they are applying the same depreciation factor to both trims).

View attachment 599243

View attachment 599244

Wow, $38k for a 5 year old Mercedes S class. Now any middle class or new college grad can afford a Mercedes S class.

 

[ggnykk]

No VAT or sales tax on electric cars in Norway, but 25% VAT + special sales taxes on cars for CO_2 and weight make BEVs competitive here.

"The gauntlet" might as well be a challenge from the stock market to sell 500.000 in a year.

Yea, I heard about no VAT for EV in Norway. Actually, i am surprised that many people in Norway are still buying ICE cars. There are only 333,000 EV on the road in Norway (only 53,669 are Tesla as of Today), less than 25% of existing car fleet is EV in Norway. Even with the highest gasoline price in Europe ($6 USD per gallon equivalent in US), no VAT or tax, no toll road fee, free street parking etc.

I know a lot of people and study say Norway is a shinning example of great EV development. But based on the data and what we have seen, if anything, Norway has proved that the world will never fully transition to EV, or take some crazy long time like another 50 years.