Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Model S has No Soul!

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I don’t know if my 75D has soul, or not. All I know is in the week I’ve had to surrender it to a body shop for extensive repairs, I’ve been going through severe Tesla Withdrawal. Some guy with no ability to speak, no hearing, and very little insurance, driving a 2001 Buick Century sedan, rear-ended us. It’ll be at least a month before we get our beloved Tesla back and I know for sure I’ve never missed a car more than I’m missing our Tesla.

I’ve now been banished to my version of automotive Purgatory, wondering when and if I’ll ever get my Tesla back: a black 2016 Dodge Charger SXT with a 3.5 litre V6 engine. This is the rental vehicle that’s been provided to me.

Apparently quieter than my Tesla at highway speeds, (road and wind noise are both less intrusive), noticeably better sounding stock Alpine audio system than the so-called UHFS in my Tesla, door pockets, grab handles...AND I STILL ABSOLUTELY LOATHE driving the damn thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ken7
This is easily the most absurd conversation I've seen in my 3 years on this site. :). And there have some doozies.

Next up... a discussion about how the Psychoscrotal EM field generated by a Tesla causes ED. And how wrapping the charge cable with the bark from the Brazilian Hokopoko tree linearly transformates the field, protecting the occupants from deflationary effects.
You confuse pseudoscience with discussions of emotion. I am also against pseudoscience - don't get me started on the $200M donation to UCI med school announced today by Mr. Samueli.
 
In this context, the argument of "no soul" stems from far more than the car. It's rooted in nostalgia of the ICE heyday.

Many car guys absolutely love working on their ICE's. They go down to a garage, meet up with their friends who are also car guys, and spend the day tweaking and modifying their cars. They do their own maintenance, select their own aftermarket parts, find customized solutions to problems.

They have 2-hour discussions on the exhaust note nuances of cross-plane vs. flat-plane V8s, the differences in sound between a roots supercharger and a turbocharger, and what's more cost effective for my engine -- a different camshaft or a different manifold?

They watch auto racing with anticipation as to which team has the winning combination -- and is it horsepower, fuel strategy, pit expertise, or tire selection that will win the race?

There is a camaraderie, a cohesiveness, common interest, shared accomplishment, and some Budweiser.

These guys shudder with despair at the thought of an EV world. No more garages, no more tweaking, no more aftermarket performance parts. Not only does the ICE era end, but their importance within it disappears as well. In the ICE world, they're a knowledgeable guy. With EVs, they're not.

This is summed up with the phrase "no soul" -- a concise nutshell explanation of all that they feel will be lost with the change. It's not reflective of the car, it's reflective of their own persona.
 
Pretty interesting thread. As a lifelong self-identified "car guy" (who does my own oil changes in the driveway), I've also heard the same "no soul" comments from fellow car enthusiasts.

To me, a vehicle's "soul" is akin to a characterization of a vehicles attributes: Is the car loud and boisterous, or reserved and mellow? Is the steering fast and connected, or slow and numb? Does the car have a history? Or is there a compelling history around the car's production? And most importantly to me: Is the car unique to other cars?

All those things combine to define the soul of a car, and in the case of Model S, I absolutely feel it has soul. There is no other car on the road today that delivers the driving experience of Model S. The perfect accelerator mapping, direct drive gearbox, precise steering and excellent dynamics make it a unique driving experience. And debates like this - telling the story of Tesla - adds to that feeling of soul.

That said, I do feel the mass market people movers: Accords, Camrys, Lexus, and even modern BMW/Audi leave the factory with a soulless feeling. It's up to the driver to take them on adventures - to develop a history with the car - to enable the personality / soul to shine through.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThosEM
I think it basically comes down to EV's not being what they're used to. I'd note that many of the examples in this thread of what gives ICE vehicles "soul" amount to kludges to make up for inherent shortcomings in ICE technology. Having a clutch is a workaround for the fact that the engine is incapable of providing adequate torque at all speeds without changing gears. Doing oil changes is necessary because the engine requires large quantities of lubrication that it then heavily pollutes, ultimately breaking the engine entirely if it isn't changed out. The engine noise is due to the fact that it can't adequately capture the full power of the fuel it uses, wasting large quantities of it by producing vibrations.
 
Crossed a Bentley Convertible driving through a parking lot a couple of hours ago. I can imagine those brands' engineers spending hours fine-tuning the sound coming out of the exhaust :). My wife has a Mini Cooper S which, when you put it in sports mode, will intentionally have the exhaust back-fire when you decelerate after having floored the gas (and yes, I admit I do always put it in sports mode). I'm also somewhat nostalgic about the sound of an air-cooled flat-6 911 (or a Beetle, or the boxer-motor Alfa's I owned, for that matter).

But imo there's now nothing greater, in terms of soul, than the gentle whisper of a Tesla doing an incredible acceleration without the macho noise we used to associate with that!
 
Last edited:
I am not confident "soul" is just about the ICE, though.

At least in Europe "soul" has been often associated with a certain kind of vehicle, e.g. Italian supercars have it, German sports cars don't necessarily. Soul is often the anti-thesis of efficient, practical and good. :)

Not every ICE is thought of as having "soul".

A perception of soul often also comes from tradition. Tesla doesn't have that much of it yet.
 
Last edited:
I have been reading this a lot lately and I know this might be a very controversial subject but I wanted to hear some explanations about this idea, that the Model S has no soul.

So the first thing I want to say as I am relatively new here and an admitted fanboy. For me, there is no better car in the world, and I'm wondering if the "no soul" argument is simply a BS way to push back against innovation.

I also don't get the "real car guys would never drive an electric" argument.

I consider myself a "real car guy". Do, I do my own oil changes in my driveway? No, but who gets to define "real car guy"? Why do my hands have to be covered in grease to be a "real car guy"?

Meaning, if I love a quiet ride, instant torque, technology and innovation, why am I not a "real car guy"? If I marvel at how smooth my Model S is over the herky-jerky transmission of my IS350, does it make me less of a car guy? If I prefer serenity over noise, can I not be a "car guy"?

As an admitted atheist... I don't believe humans have souls (but that is an entirely different thread) but when I read people (even "experts") saying the Model S has "no soul", what does it mean? What and who gets to define the soul of an inanimate object?

I remember back with the invention of the CD, music "purists" decried them as a bastardization of sound one could get from a record. Today, most music comes via hard drives and downloads. The notion that the old way was better would largely be ridiculed. I am wondering if the same will be true with electric cars. I kind of see it as inevitable.

Again, not sure what is meant by "soul" but if it means putting a smile on my face every time I sit down, my Model S has plenty of soul.
By no soul, I would assume they mean it lacks garishness and it's motor doesn't make a lot of noise.

I grew up working on cars, repairing and rebuilding motors, servicing my own car, replacing brakes, clutches, water pumps, radiators, fuel lines, doing body work, reading Car & Driver and MotorTrend, and I like driving a stick. I also now drive an electric car and love it (and the company). If that means I'm not a car guy...well...ok. Whatever floats their boat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThosEM and Struja
I am not confident "soul" is just about the ICE, though.

At least in Europe "soul" has been often associated with a certain kind of vehicle, e.g. Italian supercars have it, German sports cars don't necessarily. Soul is often the anti-thesis of efficient, practical and good. :)

Not every ICE is thought of as having "soul".

A perception of soul often also comes from tradition. Tesla doesn't have that much of it yet.

Well... if we're going to make up terms, define them and then render arbitrary judgments against them, then I might as well join the fun.

hoogzam
ho͞ogzam/
noun
  1. the ethereal sense that your intestines are being silently, powerfully and effortlessly sucked through the back of your spine and into the seatback, as you stomp on the accelerator.
So... now having defined this, let's open the debate.

My Tesla is the first car I've ever had that really has hoogzam. I've ridden in a bunch of high end cars from the Italians and Germans. And they just don't have it. Don't get me wrong. A Ferrari is low slung, flashy and all that. And the roar when you step on the pedal is kinda cool. But the car just doesn't have any hoogzam. For me... it's all about hoogzam.

:)
 
Last edited:
Well... if we're going to make up terms, define them and then render arbitrary judgments against them, then I might as well join the fun.

hoogzam
ho͞ogzam/
noun
  1. the ethereal sense that your intestines are being silently, powerfully and effortlessly sucked through the back of you spine and into the seatback, as you stomp on the accelerator.
So... now having defined this, let's open the debate.

My Tesla is the first car I've ever had that really has hoogzam. I've ridden in a bunch of high end cars from the Italians and Germans. And they just don't have it. Don't get me wrong. A Ferrari is low slung, flashy and all that. And the roar when you step on the pedal is kinda cool. But the car just doesn't have any hoogzam. For me... it's all about hoogzam.

:)

Look, I freely adming having "soul" is a made-up concept. Most of culture is.

Art is a made-up concept.

But I am saying there are certain things than more often than others - in the automotive world - are described as having "soul". Italian supercars are one such thing. It is a cultural thing. Put enough people in a room with a bunch of cars and that is the sub-group very likely to be with most soul in their view, I'd wager.

Teslas, it seems, are not. :) Luckily they have hoogzam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: avesraggiana
Look, I freely adming having "soul" is a made-up concept. Most of culture is.

Art is a made up concept.

But I am saying there are certain things than more often than others - in the automotive world - are described as having "soul". Italian supercars are one such thing.

Teslas, it seems, are not. :) Luckily they are hoogzam.

That's it! Some car guys are "soul" guys. I'm a "hoogzam" guy. The more hoogzam the better. Sometimes, watching a P100D drive by, I can help but swivel my head to check out the hoogzam. The Mission E, has the potential to have a LOT of hoogzam.
 
  • Love
Reactions: AnxietyRanger
The Mission E, has the potential to have a LOT of hoogzam.

I agree - having just learned the definition of hoogzam. :)

To me this whole thread is about emotional terminology, really. It is cultural, it changes with the times, the locations, the people - and most of all it is not meant to be too serious.

Describing emotions - be they individual or something shared by a larger group of people - by nature is very vague.
 
Soul is living and enjoying with the unique idiosyncrasies of your car. Hitting the dash to get the radio to work, the slight jiggle needed to turn the knob on the vent setting from floor to defrost, that exact RPM to get the gear out of first without grinding, etc. Alfa's have lots of soul for this reason.

I just got a Tesla. Just to tease me, the suspension automatically raises and lowers near my house but at work, where is actually needed, requires manual operation. To keep me from being complacent, the garage door opener only sometimes works on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. The door handles periodically need an affectionate nudge to open... For these reasons, I like to think my Tesla has as much "soul" as any Alfa or any other italian car.
 
Soul is living and enjoying with the unique idiosyncrasies of your car. Hitting the dash to get the radio to work, the slight jiggle needed to turn the knob on the vent setting from floor to defrost, that exact RPM to get the gear out of first without grinding, etc. Alfa's have lots of soul for this reason.

I just got a Tesla. Just to tease me, the suspension automatically raises and lowers near my house but at work, where is actually needed, requires manual operation. To keep me from being complacent, the garage door opener only sometimes works on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. The door handles periodically need an affectionate nudge to open... For these reasons, I like to think my Tesla has as much "soul" as any Alfa or any other italian car.

This is why I claim Model X has soul. (And of course this is why Italian supercars more often get the praise than German wunderwaffen.)

It just got a software update that added a lot of soul too. (It has gone absolutely bonkers regarding locking doors and folding mirrors.)
 
  • Funny
Reactions: sandpiper
Soul is living and enjoying with the unique idiosyncrasies of your car. Hitting the dash to get the radio to work, the slight jiggle needed to turn the knob on the vent setting from floor to defrost, that exact RPM to get the gear out of first without grinding, etc. Alfa's have lots of soul for this reason.

I just got a Tesla. Just to tease me, the suspension automatically raises and lowers near my house but at work, where is actually needed, requires manual operation. To keep me from being complacent, the garage door opener only sometimes works on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. The door handles periodically need an affectionate nudge to open... For these reasons, I like to think my Tesla has as much "soul" as any Alfa or any other italian car.

Ahh.... okay. So "soul" is synonymous (or at least closely correlated to) noisy, unpredictable and unreliable. I gotcha. Although by that metric my P85D has definitely shown me a bit of soul.... more than I would like.

My wife had an A4 years ago that was just overflowing with soul. That car had big floppy blobs of soul hanging out all over the place. It spent more time in the "soul shop" having it's soul stuffed back in, than it spent in our driveway. After that car, I became a soul-o-phobic. I'll take soul-less hoogzam any day.