Model S - HPWC (High Power Wall Connector)

[MorrisonHiker]

Thinner, lighter cable is welcome and much easier to wrap around, carry around and handle. It's almost half as thick.

No difference in charging performance, getting 48A ad 230V like my Gen2 as expected.

The reason the cable is thinner is because gen 2 wall connectors could charge older vehicles at up to 80 amps. Gen 3 wall connectors max out at 48 amps for all vehicles.

 

[FlatSix911]

Quick review of the new 24' ft. Gen 3 wall connector.

Pros:
Much easier physical installation than the Gen2. Mount the backplate to the wall, wire the power in, and the front just snaps in place. Also, much lighter.

Thinner, lighter cable is welcome and much easier to wrap around, carry around and handle. It's almost half as thick.

No difference in charging performance, getting 48A ad 230V like my Gen2 as expected.

The Gen3 18 ft. was a compromise since I park straight in most of the time, and need the full length of the cable, now it is just as should be. I sometimes back it in, but if the 18ft cable wouldn't reach when parked normally, then I would just get an 8ft. Now this is no longer a problem.

Commissioning the unit through software is much better than using DIP switches. It's almost plug and play.

Cons:
Perhaps the way the screws secure the front plate are a little difficult to secure and you have to come it at an angle (two from the top and two bottom).

See this post for more information on the Gen3 deficiencies ... I have searched everywhere for this

The Gen3 that replaced the rock solid Gen2 cost the exact same $500, but had these specific deficiencies:

1. Shorter cord. The Gen3 originally had only an 18 foot cord instead of the 24 foot that the Gen2 had. This was quite a problem for a lot of people. Just in the last few weeks, Tesla has changed that, but it was about a year and a half? two years? that it was worse like that.

2. Lower power. The Gen1 and Gen2 could be installed on up to 100A circuits and provide 80A to the car. Since they replaced it with the Gen3, there was no way to get more than 48A anymore. People with Tesla cars that could take 80 or 72A didn't have any Tesla charging product available that could supply their cars at the full rate anymore.

3. Circuit sharing. The Gen2 had perfect circuit sharing among multiple wall connectors. Tesla switched and put the Gen3 on the market MISSING that key feature!! That was pathetic, and a horrible decision to release such an unfinished product. It was that way for well over a year, without that feature, and again, it was only about a month ago, Tesla finally pushed out a software update that finally implemented it.

4. Build quality/defects. Most of the first couple of years of shipments of these have been defective, reporting or actually experiencing overheating when running at full current, and Tesla has had to warranty replace most of these. For a long time, many of these were being replaced with ones that were still defective and having to be replaced again, because they still didn't have versions that were being built right. It was a fiasco.

 

[mnielsen55]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask so please point me in the correct direction if I'm wrong.
I'm preparing for delivery of my Model S Plaid and planning installation of a wall connector to charge the car.
It appears that the car has an on-board AC charger limited to 16.5kW; I haven't been able to confirm this, but it appears this spec MAY be only for European models? Can someone confirm this?
The next question then is, what charger supports charging at this rate? The V3 wall connector charges up to 11.5kW. I'm going to have to run new wiring to my garage and would like to plan accordingly to achieve the highest charge rate available. It appears that the current wall connector only supports a 60 amp circuit breaker now. Should I run wiring to support a 100 amp circuit breaker to be "future proof"?

Further, why did they reduce the charging rate from the V2 to V3 charger? I'd assume they would want to keep pushing for faster charging rates as time goes on.

 

[jerry33]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask so please point me in the correct direction if I'm wrong.
I'm preparing for delivery of my Model S Plaid and planning installation of a wall connector to charge the car.
It appears that the car has an on-board AC charger limited to 16.5kW; I haven't been able to confirm this, but it appears this spec MAY be only for European models? Can someone confirm this?
The next question then is, what charger supports charging at this rate? The V3 wall connector charges up to 11.5kW. I'm going to have to run new wiring to my garage and would like to plan accordingly to achieve the highest charge rate available. It appears that the current wall connector only supports a 60 amp circuit breaker now. Should I run wiring to support a 100 amp circuit breaker to be "future proof"?

Further, why did they reduce the charging rate from the V2 to V3 charger? I'd assume they would want to keep pushing for faster charging rates as time goes on.

Unless your electrical plan has a short TOU, there's little reason to spend extra money on fast home charging. Think of the car like a phone. Do you know how long it actually charges at night? As long as it's full in the morning it doesn't really matter. The Tesla Wall Connector or a NEMA 14-50 and Mobile Connector will both charge the car overnight. Faster charging matters on road trips or if you don't have access to home charging but for home use it's really not important. Anything 32 amps or above is efficient.

 

[markb1]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask so please point me in the correct direction if I'm wrong.
I'm preparing for delivery of my Model S Plaid and planning installation of a wall connector to charge the car.
It appears that the car has an on-board AC charger limited to 16.5kW; I haven't been able to confirm this, but it appears this spec MAY be only for European models? Can someone confirm this?
The next question then is, what charger supports charging at this rate? The V3 wall connector charges up to 11.5kW. I'm going to have to run new wiring to my garage and would like to plan accordingly to achieve the highest charge rate available. It appears that the current wall connector only supports a 60 amp circuit breaker now. Should I run wiring to support a 100 amp circuit breaker to be "future proof"?

Further, why did they reduce the charging rate from the V2 to V3 charger? I'd assume they would want to keep pushing for faster charging rates as time goes on.

Tesla has actually reduced the maximum L2 charging rate over time. When the Model S first came out, in 2012, it was available with dual 40A chargers, so it could charge at 80A and almost 20kW. Today, for most models, the max charge current is 48A, according to this page: https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/onboard-charger

It's possible that's out of date with respect to Model S Plaid. I'm not sure.

Anyway, you certainly can prewire for a 100A breaker, if you want to. But be aware that the terminals in the gen 3 wall connector can only handle #4 wire, so you would need an extra junction to convert from #2 or #3 down to #4. Or find a gen 2 wall connector, which is designed for 80A charging with a 100A breaker, and can accommodate the larger wire size.

 

[Rocky_H]

It appears that the car has an on-board AC charger limited to 16.5kW; I haven't been able to confirm this, but it appears this spec MAY be only for European models? Can someone confirm this?

Huh--I haven't been able to find anything about that either. That would really surprise me though. I thought Tesla had reduced everything in all of their cars and wall connectors to 11 kW maximum.

The next question then is, what charger supports charging at this rate? The V3 wall connector charges up to 11.5kW. I'm going to have to run new wiring to my garage and would like to plan accordingly to achieve the highest charge rate available.

Yes, I think that's about it as far as I know. That's a 60A circuit on 240V. That's what the cars support, and that's what the wall connectors support (now). The version 2 wall connectors used to be able to go on 100A circuits and provide 80A, but that's gone now.

Should I run wiring to support a 100 amp circuit breaker to be "future proof"?

No. Tesla has been indicating that they are only going downward in onboard charging capability. They used to accept 80A, then 72A, and now 48A, so "future" doesn't look higher. Installing higher capacity wouldn't be future proofing, unless you are talking about leaving extra for adding additional vehicles.

Further, why did they reduce the charging rate from the V2 to V3 charger? I'd assume they would want to keep pushing for faster charging rates as time goes on.

It's cost cutting in their cars. Tesla has taken the attitude that they have such a big deployment of Supercharger coverage that if you need better than the medium speed charging at home of about 11 kW, then just go to a Supercharger.

 

[markb1]

No. Tesla has been indicating that they are only going downward in onboard charging capability. They used to accept 80A, then 72A, and now 48A, so "future" doesn't look higher. Installing higher capacity wouldn't be future proofing, unless you are talking about leaving extra for adding additional vehicles.

Have they said this, or have they just indicated it by doing it? I would expect that someday, as battery capacity increases, they will have to go back up.

 

[Rocky_H]

Have they said this, or have they just indicated it by doing it?

I think I have seen some Tweets from Musk talking about how home charging speed or power isn't very important because of the Supercharger network. But mostly it is indicated by doing. I consider the nail in the coffin the fact that they replaced the fabulous version 2 wall connector, which could do 80A with the crummy version 3, which could only do 48A, and then shortly switched over all of their cars to that. That's done.

I would expect that someday, as battery capacity increases, they will have to go back up.

That would lead to the opposite. With more total range to start with, people will have more leftover each day and need even LESS charging speed at home to refill it. Shorter range cars have more need for more frequent and faster recharging.

 

[jerry33]

That would lead to the opposite. With more total range to start with, people will have more leftover each day and need even LESS charging speed at home to refill it.

Agreed. Just because your car has more range doesn't mean that your daily drive will increase. More range is helpful for trips (especially in the Supercharger Desert), but how many folks actually have a round trip commute of more than 200 miles? I've been driving Teslas for over eight years now and a NEMA 14-50 always gets the car full (=90%) by morning. There are situations where faster charging helps (two Teslas and a 200 amp panel, or a short TOU electric plan where you have a limited amount of time to charge at the lowest rate), but mostly faster charging at home is a non-issue.

 

[Rocky_H]

Just because your car has more range doesn't mean that your daily drive will increase.

Yeah, that's the other one I find funny. You don't mysteriously have to drive 4X or 10X as far to work just because future cars have more capability.

 

[markb1]

That would lead to the opposite. With more total range to start with, people will have more leftover each day and need even LESS charging speed at home to refill it. Shorter range cars have more need for more frequent and faster recharging.

That's a good point. Though there are situations where more range would mean more driving between charges. For instance, if you just got back from road trip, you might have a very low state of charge (why waste time at superchargers when you have enough range to get home?) and want to recharge your car to a high state of charge overnight.

 

[jerry33]

That's a good point. Though there are situations where more range would mean more driving between charges. For instance, if you just got back from road trip, you might have a very low state of charge (why waste time at superchargers when you have enough range to get home?) and want to recharge your car to a high state of charge overnight.

I do this frequently in the 2020 X LR. It would need to have around twice the current range to not be able to complete overnight (means by 06:30 scheduled) to 90% on a NEMA 14-50.

 

[Rocky_H]

Though there are situations where more range would mean more driving between charges.

All right, let's look at those scenarios.

For instance, if you just got back from road trip, you might have a very low state of charge [...] and want to recharge your car to a high state of charge overnight.

OK, I see two very convenient solutions or responses to this.
1. Just catch an extra 15 minutes at the last Supercharger to get some of that extra range, so it's not really low if you need it to not be really low.

(why waste time at superchargers when you have enough range to get home?)

Because they are SO easy!

2. But the other thing is that we're talking about long range cars in the future with like 500 miles, so... If you just got back from a really long trip and need to recharge... How could you possibly need all 500 miles again the very next day without going on a trip that would involve Superchargers again? That's nonsense. So really, with that night, plus the next night, it would catch up just fine.

I know I tend to sound like I am saying opposite things a lot of the time, because I seem to argue both for and against high power wall connectors and high power onboard chargers, but it does make a form of sense, because I am talking about opposite situations.

I don't think there is much need for that at home. But I do think it is a very good and useful thing for a cost-effective medium speed charging for coverage of travel areas that don't have good Supercharger coverage. Businesses can put in 70 or 80 or 100 amp circuits pretty reasonably to bridge some gaps on state and U.S. highways, and if the cars could make use of that, it would be very useful.

 

[henderrj]

You are missing what I believe will become more common in the future. Sharing of automobiles with people from the same home. My son and I did it for a few years. He worked a shift exactly opposite from mine, he got home and I had to use it. There were times when I needed that 20 kilowatt charging ability. If we were still doing that I wouldn't even consider a new tesla. Unless I could get a CCS adapter and charger for the home! I suppose I could use a chademo adapter and system.

 

[miimura]

To me, the most compelling argument for higher power home charging a large battery EV is a limited number of hours in the Off-Peak rate window. However, this does not apply in California any more since the Off-Peak EV rate was changed from 11pm-7am to 12mid-3pm. If you work an early shift and have to leave at like 6am, this may still be a problem. Still, 6 hours can replace 180+ miles of range with a Wall Connector delivering 48A to the car.

 

[Rocky_H]

Sharing of automobiles with people from the same home. My son and I did it for a few years. He worked a shift exactly opposite from mine, he got home and I had to use it.

...in which case there is no time for charging at home, so the speed doesn't matter. Am I missing something? You would need to use a local Supercharger then to keep up with that use case at all.

 

[markb1]

All right, let's look at those scenarios.

OK, I see two very convenient solutions or responses to this.
1. Just catch an extra 15 minutes at the last Supercharger to get some of that extra range, so it's not really low if you need it to not be really low.

Because they are SO easy!

2. But the other thing is that we're talking about long range cars in the future with like 500 miles, so... If you just got back from a really long trip and need to recharge... How could you possibly need all 500 miles again the very next day without going on a trip that would involve Superchargers again? That's nonsense. So really, with that night, plus the next night, it would catch up just fine.

More want than need. I don't want to make an extra stop at a supercharger. I don't find them super convenient, while I do find overnight charging at home to be extremely convenient. So I want to minimize supercharger use as much as possible.

 

[Hank42]

I have a Gen 1 Model S with dual onboard chargers capable of 80A. I used to think I needed it, but I'll tell you a few things - wiring that puppy (correctly) was a pain due to the large conductor size, and the recommended conductors don't fit the screw terminals properly That aside, I found that the charging cable "wears out" over time - that's to say, after a few years, the connector handle started to get very hot as the contacts became pitted. That's exasperated by the high current. I've since lowered my max charge to 40A(and gotten a new cable)and the cable stays cool, and will last longer. I found that I don't *need* to charge at 80A.. Ever. If I'm in a pinch, I'll hit a SC somewhere.

 

[Fiver]

I have a Gen 1 Model S with dual onboard chargers capable of 80A. I used to think I needed it, but I'll tell you a few things - wiring that puppy (correctly) was a pain due to the large conductor size, and the recommended conductors don't fit the screw terminals properly That aside, I found that the charging cable "wears out" over time - that's to say, after a few years, the connector handle started to get very hot as the contacts became pitted. That's exasperated by the high current. I've since lowered my max charge to 40A(and gotten a new cable)and the cable stays cool, and will last longer. I found that I don't *need* to charge at 80A.. Ever. If I'm in a pinch, I'll hit a SC somewhere.

Just to agree/follow on this: My first S also had dual chargers. Never once needed 80amp charging at home. That said, some places I frequent have 80amp destination chargers set up and it was nice to get speedy charge rates from them. My current X still has the 72amp charger, and over the the last 7 years those destination chargers have saved me over a thousand dollars. Granted the one I use the most is at a gym I pay for, so I just look at it as a reduction in my gym membership costs.

 

[jerry33]

Just to agree/follow on this: My first S also had dual chargers. Never once needed 80amp charging at home. That said, some places I frequent have 80amp destination chargers set up and it was nice to get speedy charge rates from them.

This. Before there were Superchargers available, these were far faster than the alternatives.