Model S is long in the tooth

[tstafford]

Probably get pounded for saying this because it's not positive and likely beaten to death, but the MS just isn't keeping up with alternatives in the price range. Note: I'm pro-Tesla, pro-electric. However I think the early concept of "no compromise" was right. A 100D or P100D is an expensive car and buyers should expect a lot.

Drove my wife's 2019 BMW X7 and the interior, electronics, creature comforts, steering feel, basically everything is better than my 2018 MS. And I generally dislike big SUVs - I can only imagine what the latest tricked out 5-series must be like.

I have a full monty deposit down on the Roadster but I'm getting nervous about Tesla's plans to actually build the car. Seems (and probably appropriately so) that their focus is elsewhere. Maybe they shouldn't have taken $250K deposits on a car they didn't have a solid plan to build, but I digress.

Unless Tesla builds the Roadster or does a full model changeover (not a BS refresh) I wonder if I can continue to drive what feels like a 2012 car in 2020. For now I'm going to continue to love never going to the gas station, the convenience of AP, etc. But as Porsche, BMW (and others) continue to refine their cars the value prop of Tesla for the luxury (no compromise) buyer is eroding quickly.

 

[Joelgjr]

Ok?

 

[Ofarlig]

Im sorry but the BMWs really feel like 2012 cars, sure they are nice when it comes to interior quality and driving but it’s the same old we seen since for almost 10 years now when it comes to tech feel. Small screen in the middle with a unwieldy car OS in it, BMW just jumped on the digital dashboard but it isn’t even fully configurable so they are still behind the other Germans.

So no I don’t understand when people say that Tesla’s are behind now, they have always been behind when it comes to luxury and features but they haven’t lost their lead when it comes to how futuristic it feels.

 

[DukeofURL]

I still encounter people who haven't seen the inside of a Tesla. When I let them sit in my car, they're always amazed. Of course everyone's eyes go to the MCU, but they also love the way that everything is a screen (IC too), there are few buttons, and everything seems so futuristic in comparison. Granted, Teslas are definitely starting to get more popular (with the huge amount of 3 sales), but there are still more people haven't seen them than have.

Where the problem comes in is us, the owners. Everyone is used to the experience of buying a new car and having it be appreciably different than the last car they got. Arguably it's one of the more fun parts of buying a new car, and cars being a depreciating asset, fun is a large component of what makes us buy. If you've been driving with the Model S/X interior for 5 years, you're gonna get used to it and want something new. I know I will.

So that comes down to the end of it, that Tesla doesn't *need* to refresh the interior of the S/X, it's still rather impressive to new buyers - that's only going to serve them for so long though. They'd do better to be ahead of the curve than behind it. As long as they don't refresh it to be a "bigger Model 3", then expect people to pay more than Model 3 prices for it...

 

[Mike Robinson]

Probably get pounded for saying this because it's not positive and likely beaten to death, but the MS just isn't keeping up with alternatives in the price range. Note: I'm pro-Tesla, pro-electric. However I think the early concept of "no compromise" was right. A 100D or P100D is an expensive car and buyers should expect a lot.

Drove my wife's 2019 BMW X7 and the interior, electronics, creature comforts, steering feel, basically everything is better than my 2018 MS. And I generally dislike big SUVs - I can only imagine what the latest tricked out 5-series must be like.

I have a full monty deposit down on the Roadster but I'm getting nervous about Tesla's plans to actually build the car. Seems (and probably appropriately so) that their focus is elsewhere. Maybe they shouldn't have taken $250K deposits on a car they didn't have a solid plan to build, but I digress.

Unless Tesla builds the Roadster or does a full model changeover (not a BS refresh) I wonder if I can continue to drive what feels like a 2012 car in 2020. For now I'm going to continue to love never going to the gas station, the convenience of AP, etc. But as Porsche, BMW (and others) continue to refine their cars the value prop of Tesla for the luxury (no compromise) buyer is eroding quickly.

Good news: you can buy whatever you want! I love my 2018 MS 100D and have no desire to change. You sound like a good candidate for a Taycan or one of the other up-and-comers. Get whatever you want and enjoy it

 

[ev-now]

Seems to me that even in Tesla-land you are in rarified air - few here (or anywhere) have deposits on the new Roadster. Given the price point you have choices most do not, and I suspect there are cars in there that compete in very different ways to the way MS or MX does for the majority.

I think Duke makes a good point. We all take for granted what we have (all too quickly), and you are looking for ways to differentiate your experience. However much BMW has improved it's driving experience, I can't really imagine an X7 compared to the acceleration or smooth ride that your 100D has. But I can imagine the toys are good (not much changed really on the Tesla), and the steering might be better - though you could easily invest in suspension and tire upgrades to improve that.

Ultimately when I get a 2018 loaner, it seems to me that the car has moved forward a long way - in small, incremental ways, but as you say major changes have not really happened. I don't have a reference point for other AP system - I just hear the noise that others have as good or better systems. FSD (if/when) may be the big differentiator in the S/X line. And of course there's nothing to compare to the Roadster 2 yet - then again there is also no Roadster 2 yet ...

 

[Destiny1701]

So you had me until ‘for the luxury no compromise buyer’.

Tesla has never ever stood on being a ‘luxury’ product. That was never their tag line nor their focus. They created a ‘high end’ tech machine which the world had never before seen. They convinced the oldest and proudest of automotive guru’s that EV technology can compete and even better their ICE equivalents. And they succeeded in moving the market much faster to that initial goal of global sustainable transport.

They never eluded to being as luxurious as the 6 figure ICE brands out there.

Tesla did market themselves as the most viable EV tech car on the planet. And since 2012, they still are today!

So yes I agree from a luxury standpoint, there are definitely better options out there. From a tech drivetrain standpoint? Nope. At least not till the Taycan...perhaps...

Glad you still enjoy your MS

 

[FreqFlyer]

Aging Tesla Designs Still Have Spark

Do not expect changes anytime soon, at least externally.

 

[tstafford]

Good points folks. And I do continue to enjoy the MS. I agree that the tech and the drivetrain are the things that make Tesla special. Obviously the ultra-smooth acceleration is awesome. I just wish Tesla could also improve the interior to be comparable to other cars in the price range. I do acknowledge that my 2018 is a good bit better than my 2015 in this regard but still not on par the other options out there.

 

[jebinc]

Probably get pounded for saying this because it's not positive and likely beaten to death, but the MS just isn't keeping up with alternatives in the price range. Note: I'm pro-Tesla, pro-electric. However I think the early concept of "no compromise" was right. A 100D or P100D is an expensive car and buyers should expect a lot.

Drove my wife's 2019 BMW X7 and the interior, electronics, creature comforts, steering feel, basically everything is better than my 2018 MS. And I generally dislike big SUVs - I can only imagine what the latest tricked out 5-series must be like.

I have a full monty deposit down on the Roadster but I'm getting nervous about Tesla's plans to actually build the car. Seems (and probably appropriately so) that their focus is elsewhere. Maybe they shouldn't have taken $250K deposits on a car they didn't have a solid plan to build, but I digress.

Unless Tesla builds the Roadster or does a full model changeover (not a BS refresh) I wonder if I can continue to drive what feels like a 2012 car in 2020. For now I'm going to continue to love never going to the gas station, the convenience of AP, etc. But as Porsche, BMW (and others) continue to refine their cars the value prop of Tesla for the luxury (no compromise) buyer is eroding quickly.

I "generally" agree with you. For this reason, I jumped into the M3 as my first Tesla (more current tech). Many promises or forecasts of greatness (from Tesla, e.g., FSD, etc.) While I love my M3, I am not sure yet if there will be a second Tesla in my future, or some other competing brand. Time will tell...

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

I think the biggest thing that you are seeing is that there isn't a huge difference between a 2013 and a 2019 Model S and it's a little disappointing. When you buy a new car you want something new and exciting but with Tesla you get something that just a little better than before and it isn't as noticeable. It's the same reason I went from a 2008 Toyota Sienna to a 2018 Honda Odyssey, because when i got in the 2018 Sienna everything just felt a tiny bit better/newer but I wanted something really new and fresh. Tesla's screens and over the air updates are a double edges sword because old stuff keeps getting updated so there isn't a big difference between a 5+ year car and one that just came off the assembly line.

 

[tranzndance]

When I'm at the front of the line at a red light, after it turns green, the other cars are literally behind me by a block. This is without trying hard and staying within the speed limit.

The first time it happened during a two lane left turn, I thought the car that was in the front with me was camping in my blind spot, but it turned out to be so far behind I did not see it.

 

[robg]

Im sorry but the BMWs really feel like 2012 cars, sure they are nice when it comes to interior quality and driving but it’s the same old we seen since for almost 10 years now when it comes to tech feel. Small screen in the middle with a unwieldy car OS in it, BMW just jumped on the digital dashboard but it isn’t even fully configurable so they are still behind the other Germans.

So no I don’t understand when people say that Tesla’s are behind now, they have always been behind when it comes to luxury and features but they haven’t lost their lead when it comes to how futuristic it feels.

Have you driven a recent BMW? If Tesla ditched their infotainment/cluster and replaced it with BMW's current one it would be vast improvement. Imagine being able to:
-browse playlists/albums/artists on your phone via BT or USB connection
-Scroll through/select track or stations using the steering wheel/cluster (instead of just forward/back)
-Control phone apps on the screen via either Carplay or BMW's built in phone app mirroring
-Not be forced to use a touch screen (that is more distracting/ hard to use) while driving (instead you'd have the option of a conveniently placed scroll wheel)
-Activate the car's voice control using a wake-up work (just as you can with Google Home, Alexa, Siri, etc)
-Add waypoints to your nav route
-Find available parking spots/ garages using the nav system
-Choose from several alternate routes and routing options
-Have the option of a configurable heads-up display
-See a surround view image of your car (And even pan around it as if you were standing outside of it)


That's just off the top of my head. About the only thing that Tesla does arguably better is having a built-in music streaming option although I prefer to use the same music sources/apps that i have on my phone. Even the advantage of the larger screen is debatable (other than looking cool)- Tesla needs one due to the touch only interface. Also Tesla crams the climate control onto the screen whereas BMW has separate knobs/buttons. And, in the case of the model 3, they cram the cluster onto the center screen as well (also somewhat negating the apparent size advantage). Even OTA updates are now done by many automakers (including BMW). Stuff like dog mode, dashcam, sentry mode and some video games aren't enough to make up for Tesla not getting the basics right. As for feeling like 2012, you're right, BMW has had some of these features since before then.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Have you driven a recent BMW? If Tesla ditched their infotainment/cluster and replaced it with BMW's current one it would be vast improvement. Imagine being able to:
-browse playlists/albums/artists on your phone via BT or USB connection
-Scroll through/select track or stations using the steering wheel/cluster (instead of just forward/back)
-Control phone apps on the screen via either Carplay or BMW's built in phone app mirroring
-Not be forced to use a touch screen (that is more distracting/ hard to use) while driving (instead you'd have the option of a conveniently placed scroll wheel)
-Activate the car's voice control using a wake-up work (just as you can with Google Home, Alexa, Siri, etc)
-Add waypoints to your nav route
-Find available parking spots/ garages using the nav system
-Choose from several alternate routes and routing options
-Have the option of a configurable heads-up display
-See a surround view image of your car (And even pan around it as if you were standing outside of it)


That's just off the top of my head. About the only thing that Tesla does arguably better is having a built-in music streaming option although I prefer to use the same music sources/apps that i have on my phone. Even the advantage of the larger screen is debatable (other than looking cool)- Tesla needs one due to the touch only interface. Also Tesla crams the climate control onto the screen whereas BMW has separate knobs/buttons. And, in the case of the model 3, they cram the cluster onto the center screen as well (also somewhat negating the apparent size advantage). Even OTA updates are now done by many automakers (including BMW). Stuff like dog mode, dashcam, sentry mode and some video games aren't enough to make up for Tesla not getting the basics right. As for feeling like 2012, you're right, BMW has had some of these features since before then.

You sound like a satisfied BMW owner. That’s why we have lots of car choices. To each his own

 

[SO16]

Have you driven a recent BMW? If Tesla ditched their infotainment/cluster and replaced it with BMW's current one it would be vast improvement. Imagine being able to:
-browse playlists/albums/artists on your phone via BT or USB connection
-Scroll through/select track or stations using the steering wheel/cluster (instead of just forward/back)
-Control phone apps on the screen via either Carplay or BMW's built in phone app mirroring
-Not be forced to use a touch screen (that is more distracting/ hard to use) while driving (instead you'd have the option of a conveniently placed scroll wheel)
-Activate the car's voice control using a wake-up work (just as you can with Google Home, Alexa, Siri, etc)
-Add waypoints to your nav route
-Find available parking spots/ garages using the nav system
-Choose from several alternate routes and routing options
-Have the option of a configurable heads-up display
-See a surround view image of your car (And even pan around it as if you were standing outside of it)


That's just off the top of my head. About the only thing that Tesla does arguably better is having a built-in music streaming option although I prefer to use the same music sources/apps that i have on my phone. Even the advantage of the larger screen is debatable (other than looking cool)- Tesla needs one due to the touch only interface. Also Tesla crams the climate control onto the screen whereas BMW has separate knobs/buttons. And, in the case of the model 3, they cram the cluster onto the center screen as well (also somewhat negating the apparent size advantage). Even OTA updates are now done by many automakers (including BMW). Stuff like dog mode, dashcam, sentry mode and some video games aren't enough to make up for Tesla not getting the basics right. As for feeling like 2012, you're right, BMW has had some of these features since before then.

When did you get your Tesla?

 

[dk10438]

Have you driven a recent BMW? If Tesla ditched their infotainment/cluster and replaced it with BMW's current one it would be vast improvement. Imagine being able to:
-browse playlists/albums/artists on your phone via BT or USB connection
-Scroll through/select track or stations using the steering wheel/cluster (instead of just forward/back)
-Control phone apps on the screen via either Carplay or BMW's built in phone app mirroring
-Not be forced to use a touch screen (that is more distracting/ hard to use) while driving (instead you'd have the option of a conveniently placed scroll wheel)
-Activate the car's voice control using a wake-up work (just as you can with Google Home, Alexa, Siri, etc)
-Add waypoints to your nav route
-Find available parking spots/ garages using the nav system
-Choose from several alternate routes and routing options
-Have the option of a configurable heads-up display
-See a surround view image of your car (And even pan around it as if you were standing outside of it)


That's just off the top of my head. About the only thing that Tesla does arguably better is having a built-in music streaming option although I prefer to use the same music sources/apps that i have on my phone. Even the advantage of the larger screen is debatable (other than looking cool)- Tesla needs one due to the touch only interface. Also Tesla crams the climate control onto the screen whereas BMW has separate knobs/buttons. And, in the case of the model 3, they cram the cluster onto the center screen as well (also somewhat negating the apparent size advantage). Even OTA updates are now done by many automakers (including BMW). Stuff like dog mode, dashcam, sentry mode and some video games aren't enough to make up for Tesla not getting the basics right. As for feeling like 2012, you're right, BMW has had some of these features since before then.

IDK,
my wife has a fully loaded X3 M40i and it seems kinda archaic after I got my P100DL. Screen seems puny, all these knobs are kinda annoying, I always forget to turn off the ignition cuz I'm used to putting the car into park and walking away, etc...
Surround view and CarPlay are nice but that's about all I miss.

 

[Ofarlig]

Have you driven a recent BMW? If Tesla ditched their infotainment/cluster and replaced it with BMW's current one it would be vast improvement. Imagine being able to:
-browse playlists/albums/artists on your phone via BT or USB connection
-Scroll through/select track or stations using the steering wheel/cluster (instead of just forward/back)
-Control phone apps on the screen via either Carplay or BMW's built in phone app mirroring
-Not be forced to use a touch screen (that is more distracting/ hard to use) while driving (instead you'd have the option of a conveniently placed scroll wheel)
-Activate the car's voice control using a wake-up work (just as you can with Google Home, Alexa, Siri, etc)
-Add waypoints to your nav route
-Find available parking spots/ garages using the nav system
-Choose from several alternate routes and routing options
-Have the option of a configurable heads-up display
-See a surround view image of your car (And even pan around it as if you were standing outside of it)


That's just off the top of my head. About the only thing that Tesla does arguably better is having a built-in music streaming option although I prefer to use the same music sources/apps that i have on my phone. Even the advantage of the larger screen is debatable (other than looking cool)- Tesla needs one due to the touch only interface. Also Tesla crams the climate control onto the screen whereas BMW has separate knobs/buttons. And, in the case of the model 3, they cram the cluster onto the center screen as well (also somewhat negating the apparent size advantage). Even OTA updates are now done by many automakers (including BMW). Stuff like dog mode, dashcam, sentry mode and some video games aren't enough to make up for Tesla not getting the basics right. As for feeling like 2012, you're right, BMW has had some of these features since before then.

Yeah I have, the infotainment is still *sugar*. Sure some features like Carplay are good but the only reason it is needed is that the rest is so old and doesn’t have things like Spotify and games built in. When Youtube and Netflix comes out for the Teslas the gap is going to grow huge.

The fact that it is not made for touch is the big reason why it is so archaic, that means the entire layout goes more towards submenues. Using a touch screen while driving isn’t a problem, the same way you learn how to navigate your phone blindly you learn how to do every day tasks on the screen. We live in the age of touch screens so that interface is what we are used to and it is easy to adapt.

Yeah there are some nice features like the 3D view parking thing in the BMW, head up displays and such but that isn’t really a infotainment thing, those are stand alone options. Something I already said was a strong point for BMW.

 

[jaguar36]

Alot of folks here seem to have missed the fact that in the 7 years since the S was released the Germans have caught up significantly, whereas the S's interior has just gotten worse with the addition of the center console and the fake leather (Although the seats have improved at least). Whereas the MCU used to be leaps and bounds better than everything else, its main advantage now is screen size, but that comes at the trade off of a lack of physical controls. BMW/MB/Audi's latest infotainment systems can do pretty much everything that Tesla's can and can also do alot more that Tesla can't. Tesla needs to spend more time focusing the on the main user experience and real functionality instead of wasting time with games and fart buttons.

As evidenced by the last earnings call Tesla doesn't care about the S though, they are using price cuts and feature migration from the 3 to try and keep buyers interested, but its failing miserably. At the very least it needs a significant refresh.

 

[SO16]

Alot of folks here seem to have missed the fact that in the 7 years since the S was released the Germans have caught up significantly, whereas the S's interior has just gotten worse with the addition of the center console and the fake leather (Although the seats have improved at least). Whereas the MCU used to be leaps and bounds better than everything else, its main advantage now is screen size, but that comes at the trade off of a lack of physical controls. BMW/MB/Audi's latest infotainment systems can do pretty much everything that Tesla's can and can also do alot more that Tesla can't. Tesla needs to spend more time focusing the on the main user experience and real functionality instead of wasting time with games and fart buttons.

As evidenced by the last earnings call Tesla doesn't care about the S though, they are using price cuts and feature migration from the 3 to try and keep buyers interested, but its failing miserably. At the very least it needs a significant refresh.

So if the raven didn’t start really shipping until June and many were waiting for the “refresh”, why are people surprised the S and X dropped for the first half of the year?

Let’s see how this quarter does in terms of S/X sales before claiming victory/failure....shall we?

 

[jdw]

it would be nice if Tesla updated the Model S info on their web & ordering pages though - they mention the range, but nothing else about the new models.