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you know, despite the fact that this was a commercial use case, it's still scary for people who plan on keeping the car long-term.. it's like IKEA testing their rocking chairs with a machine to rock it back and forth 1,000,000 times to simulate years of use... pmacafee has been putting the miles on his model s, giving it accelerated aging so we can see what our personal model s(es) will be like after 50k miles or more.. I'm really hoping it's just because his model is an early vin because if the 2014 vins coming out of the factory are exhibiting these issues after 50k miles regardless of warranty coverage, it's really scary to be an owner..
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glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
The onboard charger is nothing like the HPWC. The HPWC is not a charger really, it is an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment), a glorified switch and extention cable really. The HPWC just turns A/C power on and off. The onboard charger converts A/C 120-240 volts to DC 300-400 volts. Entirely different. The onboard charger is more like a 1/12th of a supercharger.
I was hoping to see that Tesla would honor Elon's comment about not trying to make money off of service visits. Labor aside, I sincerely doubt it cost's Tesla $3600 for each charger unit. So I see this as Tesla failing to live up to Elon's stated vision.
I hope this improves. My experience so far with my car, is it just works. I have seen none of these teething problems that some have had. Maybe I am lucky. Or maybe these issues are really rare, but we hear about them on this site, which sorta amplifies it. Either way, going forward it is the out-of-warrenty repairs that have me most worried. It is a bit frustrating because it seems the car itself is easy to repair, compared to some of the work I have done with my ICE vehicles. A lot of stuff on this car is just unplug said bad module and replace with new. The diagnostics would be far simpler if Tesla would just allow us access to those tools. A bit of caution needs to be exercised when working on the high voltage stuff, but this is not unheard of situation.
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We are always upside down in the middle of a lease, no matter what the vehicle is. We keep the vehicle for the entire period of the lease. We use a lease structure because the accounting is much easier, no guessing about depreciation, etc. At the end of the lease, we assign a small value $5k or so. The cars always turn to someone else in the livery business a little further down the food chain. There is a risk if the car is totaled in the middle of the lease and we have to write a check to square with the leasing company.
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Electric700
Active Member
I was told that it did, but probably best to send to both. My original email to Ownership went without response for two days, but when I sent email a 2nd time I was told that ServiceNA is the correct email address.
Very well put. My sentiments exactly and sure many many other's.
Been reading these forums. Very close to deciding on my next car but the reliability scares me. I don't care about the warrantee. I'd rather not have to use it ever. That's what I prefer.
Aldo read about the many who have had zero issues but have to admit, I don't get it. Consistency doesn't se there yet.
A local owner recommended I wait a few years.
Electirc700 and others that made helpful suggestions;
Late last night (Thursday), I sent off the following message:
Hello;
I received my Model S in April of 2013, vin 5YJSA1DN6DFP05782.
We are now on our 4[SUP]th[/SUP] drive unit this year and then the battery failed had to be rebuilt in Fremont last month. On Monday of this week, the car would not charge and the Burlingame service center said the onboard charge unit had failed and it would cost $3300 to replace it. I am alarmed about the repeated failures in the car’s drive system and am especially concerned if Tesla does not consider the onboard charge unit to be part of the drive train. There is also a nagging concern that last month’s battery failure in some way affected the charge unit. The car could not be scheduled for repair until next Monday, leaving it unusable for a week before repairs could begin.
(+contact info including my cell#)
My cell rang very early this morning with a call from the Burlingame service center to let me know that a time slot had opened up for today, and could I bring the car right over.
This afternoon, they called back to say they were making good progress on replacing the charge units and the cost would be covered under "goodwill". In doing their normal complete inspection of a car under service, they discovered that the baffle plates over the radiator had failed and they would replace those also under "goodwill". About 2 hours later my cellphone rang with a call from the Fleet Sales Manager to see how things were. I was not able to take the call at the time and will call him back early next week.
Needless to say, much relieved. Thanks very much to all for passing along the Tesla Service "acupuncture point".
Glad to see they are going to take care of you.
For those of you who are not concerned that a car with these few miles having this many issues should really think again. This is possibly your car in 3-5 years and I'm sure you'd be pissed if you had this problem. Also, Tesla's extended warranty, which requires a deductible for each out of warranty issue is not the right answer, but may be the only answer. For those of us who drive high miles, makes it very much not worth it. I'm going at a rate of 21k miles a year which makes the extended warranty void in less than 5 years. If I have to pay a deductible for each item, that can get more expensive quickly, thus defeating the so called benefit of low maintenance EV car.
For those of you who are not concerned that a car with these few miles having this many issues should really think again. This is possibly your car in 3-5 years and I'm sure you'd be pissed if you had this problem. Also, Tesla's extended warranty, which requires a deductible for each out of warranty issue is not the right answer, but may be the only answer. For those of us who drive high miles, makes it very much not worth it. I'm going at a rate of 21k miles a year which makes the extended warranty void in less than 5 years. If I have to pay a deductible for each item, that can get more expensive quickly, thus defeating the so called benefit of low maintenance EV car.
bullgates
Member
Hello All,
First post so please be gentle. I have followed Tesla with great enthusiasm over the years as they are challenging the system which can only be helpful especially to a stagnant industry. NOTE to ICE manufacturers (adding media options in car is not innovation). Changing driving habits is innovation. I was skeptical when my brother put a deposit down on a Roadster and did my best to talk him out of it. (My brother was always a trendsetter/innovator, I am a skeptical early adopter (<-----OXYMORON). He eventually cancelled his deposit on the Roadster not because of what I said but his financial situation called for it. The funny thing is that his resolve and interest in tesla, spacex, and Elon only continued to grow. I started doing my research and was genuinely impressed because of the concept of challenging the system in these different industries. Through change and destruction we should build better and more capable systems. This of course needs to be ongoing or you will have stagnation. This thread has these concepts present.
I think what is happening in this thread is great for the most part if you choose to see it.
You have someone that is using the car in way that creates an outlier in the system. This is a perfect example for the general audience to see what can happen. I stress CAN ; not WILL. NO reason to get bent out of shape and act like this guy should eat it because he has a business. The things is that he is doing all current,future owners, and Tesla a great service.
In this example we can see warranty/reliability anxiety from current and potential owners. Some animosity (improperly placed). Also we see how Tesla responds (maybe somewhat inorganically but consistent based on past performance). This is real world application. If I were Tesla I would be paying people to test drive cars cross country and in city each day. I hear they make great use of the data they collect but I don't know if they subject these cars to real world conditions.
Also there seem to be some speculation that the price is too high for this service when have no real world numbers other than new build (unless I am missing something). From past readings and experience I can hope with great certainty that the Service Centers are truly a zero profit area. Based on what people have seen and experienced would it not be best to trust that they honor that commitment as it is very integral to growth and education of the public about the value of Tesla and EV.
I have to commend all early adopters and investors that took the risk to build/buy such a concept car. It's a concept car not because of the look but because of what it stands for.
Have a good night all...
PS I do have a tendency to ramble but eventually I will make a point.
First post so please be gentle. I have followed Tesla with great enthusiasm over the years as they are challenging the system which can only be helpful especially to a stagnant industry. NOTE to ICE manufacturers (adding media options in car is not innovation). Changing driving habits is innovation. I was skeptical when my brother put a deposit down on a Roadster and did my best to talk him out of it. (My brother was always a trendsetter/innovator, I am a skeptical early adopter (<-----OXYMORON). He eventually cancelled his deposit on the Roadster not because of what I said but his financial situation called for it. The funny thing is that his resolve and interest in tesla, spacex, and Elon only continued to grow. I started doing my research and was genuinely impressed because of the concept of challenging the system in these different industries. Through change and destruction we should build better and more capable systems. This of course needs to be ongoing or you will have stagnation. This thread has these concepts present.
I think what is happening in this thread is great for the most part if you choose to see it.
You have someone that is using the car in way that creates an outlier in the system. This is a perfect example for the general audience to see what can happen. I stress CAN ; not WILL. NO reason to get bent out of shape and act like this guy should eat it because he has a business. The things is that he is doing all current,future owners, and Tesla a great service.
In this example we can see warranty/reliability anxiety from current and potential owners. Some animosity (improperly placed). Also we see how Tesla responds (maybe somewhat inorganically but consistent based on past performance). This is real world application. If I were Tesla I would be paying people to test drive cars cross country and in city each day. I hear they make great use of the data they collect but I don't know if they subject these cars to real world conditions.
Also there seem to be some speculation that the price is too high for this service when have no real world numbers other than new build (unless I am missing something). From past readings and experience I can hope with great certainty that the Service Centers are truly a zero profit area. Based on what people have seen and experienced would it not be best to trust that they honor that commitment as it is very integral to growth and education of the public about the value of Tesla and EV.
I have to commend all early adopters and investors that took the risk to build/buy such a concept car. It's a concept car not because of the look but because of what it stands for.
Have a good night all...
PS I do have a tendency to ramble but eventually I will make a point.
UberEV1
Member
@bullgates - welcome to the forum! Agree with your first paragraph, but not 100% aligned on last. I think the roadster was more of the concept car, while Model S represents crossing the chasm, albeit setting a new bar for innovation and driving experience. Nonetheless, you raise some good questions about reasonable expectations. e.g. What should the Model S cost to maintain (post warranty)?
I did a quick Google search and found this article, which summarizes maintenance and repair costs for a variety of 2008 model year cars. As expected, the luxury cars cost more to maintain, with the BMW 750Li having a 5-year maintenance and repair cost of just under $17K ($3,400 per year avg). Lexus, a common industry benchmark, shows $9,000 over 5 years (IS350), which is $1,800 per year. If Model S were just another luxury vehicle, which it most certainly is not, but if, then maybe we would think $3,400 to say $5000 per year would be expected. However, as Elon is striving for a truly lower cost of ownership form of transportation (another aspect of the company's "innovation"), then maybe we should expect something closer to the Lexus or even lower.
So what should we expect as a truly innovative annual maintenance cost for the Model S? Let me start the bidding at <$2500 per year..??..
I did a quick Google search and found this article, which summarizes maintenance and repair costs for a variety of 2008 model year cars. As expected, the luxury cars cost more to maintain, with the BMW 750Li having a 5-year maintenance and repair cost of just under $17K ($3,400 per year avg). Lexus, a common industry benchmark, shows $9,000 over 5 years (IS350), which is $1,800 per year. If Model S were just another luxury vehicle, which it most certainly is not, but if, then maybe we would think $3,400 to say $5000 per year would be expected. However, as Elon is striving for a truly lower cost of ownership form of transportation (another aspect of the company's "innovation"), then maybe we should expect something closer to the Lexus or even lower.
So what should we expect as a truly innovative annual maintenance cost for the Model S? Let me start the bidding at <$2500 per year..??..
bullgates
Member
I should have been more clear about my commendations for investors and purchasers. It extends to both the Roadster and the Model S. Both are concept cars but the MS is certainly a more challenging car based on it being a daily driver for a family. It just has so much more utility and (mass) appeal than the Roadster.
Electric700
Active Member
Wow, that's awesome! Glad I could help and I hope that the car works perfectly from now on
Also that's great of Tesla to do the service and replacement for you at no charge.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Kudos to Tesla for doing this as "goodwill". Until we have more alternative service options, us owners will be relying on Tesla's goodwill.
Congrats, and may your Model S keep making your company money! If I was in the area and needed a lift, I would look your company up!
Interesting that Tesla just announced 100 Model S taxis at Schiphol airport!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152727364472801&set=vb.18790602800&type=2&theater
Interesting that Tesla just announced 100 Model S taxis at Schiphol airport!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152727364472801&set=vb.18790602800&type=2&theater
Agreed.
Yep. Does anyone have a pointer to details on that 500K mile Model S? What did they fix? How many drive units and battery packs did they go through or how many fixes did they have to make that were drive unit related? It's great if it was 0. If so, they need to be able to consistently deliver that a very high % of their customers.
On the note of Prius, as I posted at Highest Mileage - Page 3
Unfortunately, the above Prius v from January 2012 didn't hold up as well.
He ended up replacing the engine at 365K miles (Prius v: 300,000 miles club | Page 8 | PriusChat) in November 2014. Then he developed some other costly problems so he called it quits at 369K miles around mid-December 2014: Prius v: 300,000 miles club | Page 10 | PriusChat. He replaced it with a '14 Prius v wagon.
Since someone else mentioned IKEA testing rocking chairs, there are some comments to a post I made at My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Official Tesla Model S thread (video at Nissan Proves Commercial Vehicle Toughness in Extreme Arizona Desert - YouTube) w/Nissan having a company test their NV 3500 van, where they put on over 1/2 million miles in 32 months. And, as I posted there they mentioned 7500 miles/week, 80K miles in 3 months. They showed a van w/557K miles.
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