Model S options

[bonnie]

Aren't we just talking about moving forward(D) and backward(R)? And not moving at all (N)?

Since you have to have the brake depressed and be at a full stop to change direction does that not pretty much eliminate any significant safety issues?

The concern I'm raising is centered around a driver unaware that they depressed/didn't depress the brake and would think they were in D when they were in R or opposite. That has more significant consequences than not knowing how to start or being confused by the silent operation of the Prii. There are different ways to address that, but it has to be addressed. It's a change to actions associated with safety and can't be approached as casually as other changes to the car UI. That's all I'm saying.

 

[cinergi]

Denying direction change is currently problematic in the Roadster; quickly come to a complete stop or virtual complete stop, switch directions, and then accelerate -- woops, you're still going the old direction! The car seems to be slow to sense that I'm stopped but even if I were above the limit, it's still dangerous for it to leave it in the old setting. The "shift denied" beep and message is also WAY too slow to warn me in these situations).
I've done this twice now, and I know my CA Dan's done it. The first time, I ended up scraping over a steep driveway entrance (thankfully not a curb!). The second time, I was lucky there were no cars or people behind me. I raised it up while I was at the Model S event, too.
If the change gets denied, I think it should put it in neutral so you can't mistakenly accelerate in the wrong direction.

 

[bonnie]

Denying direction change is currently problematic in the Roadster; quickly come to a complete stop or virtual complete stop, switch directions, and then accelerate -- woops, you're still going the old direction! The car seems to be slow to sense that I'm stopped but even if I were above the limit, it's still dangerous for it to leave it in the old setting. The "shift denied" beep and message is also WAY too slow to warn me in these situations).
I've done this twice now, and I know my CA Dan's done it. The first time, I ended up scraping over a steep driveway entrance (thankfully not a curb!). The second time, I was lucky there were no cars or people behind me. I raised it up while I was at the Model S event, too.
If the change gets denied, I think it should put it in neutral so you can't mistakenly accelerate in the wrong direction.

totally agree. The good thing about the direction this thread has taken is I've ended up digging into automotive UI design (I'm typically on devices) - interesting!

 

[vfx]

The concern I'm raising is centered around a driver unaware that they depressed/didn't depress the brake and would think they were in D when they were in R or opposite...

Is this not the same problem as someone driving a stick for the first time?

 

[bonnie]

No - we're talking first time, so they don't have expectations as to what the stick will do, nor muscle memory associated with the use of a stick. We all have expectations about brake pedals. I hold it down when I change direction. I also hold it down when I stop. We're talking about (potentially) people changing how they use the brake pedal.

A comprehensive user study might show the concern to be completely unwarranted. But it would be tested for UI safety reasons first, unlike a change to a dash UI.

 

[cinergi]

Is this not the same problem as someone driving a stick for the first time?

I don't think so. To get into R in a stick, there's a much more obvious physical action and visual cue. You have to depress the clutch and maneuver the shifter correctly. If the car's still moving forward when switch directions, you tend to grind.

I think it's possible for these various options being discussed to be safe, but only if the car doesn't lead you to believe the wrong thing (like what I posted about earlier). They're different paradigms, but I think quite solvable.

 

[William13]

This is where haptic feedback is important. Perhaps a pleasant beep to indicate having chosen forward and the dump truck noise like the pries indicating reverse ingaged.

 

[Doug_G]

How about putting the shifter on the touch screen, with nice big colored buttons? You can grey out unsafe transitions, so it is impossible to try and do one.

 

[Tommy]

What ever design they come up with needs to have the following: 1. It must be intuitive with no learning curve needed; I should be able to hand the "keys" over to a valet and not worry he/she can't figure out how to move the car. 2. It must be fail-safe; spilled liquids, power loss, accidentally push/touch wrong buttons doesn't cause loss of control. 3. Ergonomically it must be familiar to the best designs of ICE cars. The German designs have this hallmark.

 

[vfx]

I went back and reread MyCroft's post. Pressing the on (start) button should on work with the brake depressed. No other function should be possible unless the brake has been released and then pressed again.

 

[Mycroft]

I thought the car was supposed to be "on" as soon as you sat down or locked the seatbelt or something. So you start off with the car on. You depress the brake and then you press the DRP button. Once for Drive and then once more for Reverse.

However, someone pointed out the valet issue. With that in mind, I guess we have to have a lever/stick of some kind or the four buttons of the Roadster.

 

[Mycroft]

Back on topic. What are the options that are *must have* for you? As discussed in the pricing thread, I think the base car will be wonderful! The best bang for the buck and for many people the 160 mile range will be plenty. That's what I'm going to talk up when discussing my car after I get it. You know the first thing they're going to ask after the range question will be the price. When I tell them $100,000, many will just disconnect and not even consider it.

At my mid-life crisis age, the option that's most important to me is the Sport option. Yes, I have an SLK to get that zippy experience, but I want the same experience in my new electric. To be able to go from 0-40 in a couple of seconds (*silently*!!!) is going to be the most fun! Since I can't have a Roadster, yet, the Model S will have to be the stand-in. I'm paying for the Signature package mainly to get the car quicker. Although the leather seats and the deep red color are nice bonuses. :smile: I'm not even so latched onto the pano roof. If it's not included in the Sig package, then I might skip it.

Anyway, I can tell questioners that if they don't need the leather and the sport package, they can buy the car for much, much less than what I paid.

 

[neroden]

But the whole point of Signature is that it's a "fully optioned" car. I seriously doubt they will let you monkey w/ the options list on a Sig as that defeats the whole purpose of having a Sig series. My guess is the only price option will be Sport/Non-Sport. Everything else will be included and part of the Sig "package".

That being said, I do find it odd that the Design Studio allows you to select 19" wheels and things that aren't "premium". Seems like the only difference in the Design Studio between Sig and regular are paint colors. Ah well, who knows, we'll find out in a few months

Some of us have no use for the 21" wheels and need the 19" wheels, due to the crappy roads we live on; I was planning to sell the 21" wheels and buy a set of 19" wheels in the aftermarket, but it's easier to just get the 19" wheels from Tesla. So, basically, some of the "options" are things which some people actively *dislike*, and I suspect Tesla is trying to keep the Signature owners happy by allowing them to get rid of those. Some people hate sunroofs, too. If the kiddie seats aren't removable, some people (me, even) may find that they detract from the cargo space.

Options which won't be considered "downgrades" by anyone are bound to be standard-and-unavoidable on the Signature, but remember that some options are... contentious.

 

[strider]

I do like to have the prototype version ...

View attachment 2983

+1000! I find the Mercedes stalk extremely unintuitive. What if you bump the stalk up or down when trying to push the end button to put it in Park? Terrible design. Buttons are the way to go - everyone who gets in my Roadster comments on how simple and easy the buttons are.

 

[qwk]

+1000! I find the Mercedes stalk extremely unintuitive. What if you bump the stalk up or down when trying to push the end button to put it in Park? Terrible design. Buttons are the way to go - everyone who gets in my Roadster comments on how simple and easy the buttons are.

Yes, buttons are the ONLY way to go. Why go backwards in such a breakthrough car?

 

[Lloyd]

Yes, buttons are the ONLY way to go. Why go backwards in such a breakthrough car?

I remember my grandfathers Chrysler New Yorker had push buttons. Very Retro!

http://www.irememberjfk.com/mt/2007/01/pushbutton_transmissions.php

 

[Mycroft]

So did my mom's '63 Dodge that I totaled. :smile: At least it wasn't my fault.

 

[onlinespending]

Yes, buttons are the ONLY way to go. Why go backwards in such a breakthrough car?

I don't know. I think there's a certain elegance to a gear stick in the center console. I don't want this to become an iPad with wheels.

 

[neroden]

Buttons ARE a simpler, more "user friendly" interface in some ways. But I'm not picky. Just as long as they don't waste the open space between seats on a pair of buttons. If there are buttons, they need to go on the dash.

 

[William13]

Buttons