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Blog Model S Owner Surprised with Hardware 3 Retrofit

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by TMC Staff, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    Yes, but I damned well expect them to actually release the incremental features as they become ready, and so any upgrades necessary for me to use them.
     
  2. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    If only it had been that simple at the time... Who knew they were not accurate. (Well, @Bladerskb knew.)

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny x 4
  3. M3BlueGeorgia

    M3BlueGeorgia Active Member

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    The "FSD computer" is Tesla's alternative/new name for HW3, and they've been shipping it in new vehicles since Mid-April.

    Supposedly this HW3 computer plus the sensors, cameras and radar on current production cars will be enough for FSD. I have my doubts, but I'm looking forward to getting an updated main computer at sometime

    If you didn't prepay for FSD, you don't get a free hardware upgrade from HW2.5 to HW3 (which has just started to happen), nor the more extensive upgrade for HW2-based vehicles to HW3, whose absence continues to cause angst to owners of HW2 + FSD vehicles.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  4. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    You keep referring to this, but is there a source / reason to believe the HW3 retrofit/upgrade will be any more extensive as HW2.5s (ie mere computer swap)?

    I do know HW2.5 has different sensors and redundancy components, but the word from high-up Tesla so far seems to have been FSD computer swap only...
     
  5. M3BlueGeorgia

    M3BlueGeorgia Active Member

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    Two reasons
    1) The current set of sensors, cameras and radar on HW2.5 and HW3 vehicles is the minimum needed for FSD, so Tesla would have to upgrade to either that, or some close subset.
    2) It would be silly for Tesla to have different FSD software for different sets of equipment. Just potentially doubles QA effort on each OTA.

    "Close subset"... Its possible we have stuff in current production cars that isn't actually needed for FSD. Probably not, but if so, no need to have upgrade it.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  6. Ludalicious

    Ludalicious Active Member

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    Ahhhhh Ok you seem to know exactly what needs to be done to have a vehicle with Full Self Driving capabilities.

    I'm glad atleast one of us knows what were talking about.
     
  7. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    While I’m not saying some sensor retrofit is not possible — just that it has not been mentioned by any Tesla higher-ups as far as I can remember — retrofitting HW2.5 to HW2 cars is pretty much impossible in volume. The front radar with its additional cabling alone seems a no-go, let alone the e-fuses and steering redundancy...

    Swapping the 7 cameras in HW2 cars might be doable, though, as that seems to be a more straightforward part-swap.

    I still personally prepare for FSD computer swap only for HW2 FSD cars...

    I agree it is silly for Tesla to have to target such diversity. But it is a result of them releasing the ”FSD” plan too early in 2016. MobilEye leaving may have forced their hand, but then again nothing forced them to make such dramatic forward-looking promises...
     
    • Like x 1
  8. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about the first point. What is extra in HW2.5 cars vs HW2 ?

    They have to weigh extra cost of QA vs extra cost of upgrading sensors etc.
     
  9. M3BlueGeorgia

    M3BlueGeorgia Active Member

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    I don't know for sure (as I mentioned in an earlier post), but I'm pretty damn sure that the sensors, cameras and radar in the current production units are tequired at the very least.
    I actually doubt if that's enough (as I mentioned earlier) since I'm not sure how certain edge cases could be handled correctly with the current setup. For example: Merging onto roundabouts, or Approaching slopped or slow vehicles around bends or over the brow of hills (or both).

    Regardless, I don't actually care about "Full Self Driving", I just want more and better driver assist features. And better processing of the current driver assist features.
     
  10. M3BlueGeorgia

    M3BlueGeorgia Active Member

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    I dug in a little to the HW2 -> HW3 upgrade issue. Very interesting.
    Using: Model S - Options by Year - Tesla Motors Club Wiki
    Also: AP, AP1, AP2, EAP, FSD - Differences/Relations/Official Documentation? | Tesla

    It looks like by late October 2016 Tesla started shipping Model S&X with HW2 and a supposedly full set of modern sensors, including 8 cameras and radar and 360` ultra-sonic sensors. So we could presume upgrading those units to HW3 might not require a lot of sensor/camera/radar work, but would require a more complex compute engine upgrade than HW2.5 -> HW3.
    Questions persist whether Tesla would need to upgrade any of the sensors, cameras or the radar unit. For example: with higher resolution cameras or upgrade the signal bus. Until Tesla release the details of HW2 -> HW3 upgrades, we don't know the complexity of the upgrade.

    Are there any earlier HW2-equiped vehicles, but without the modern setup of sensors, cameras and radar? It doesn't appear so, but its also a bit fuzzy.

    HW2.5 starting shipping after August 2017 on S&X. These are the vehicles (with FSD license) who are currently getting updated, so we can presume since HW2.5 went into production, no additional upgrades to sensors, cameras and radar are currently required.

    It is also interesting that Sentry mode initially required HW2.5, though there are reports of people with HW2 using it. Not sure if this constraint is related to just the better compute engine or something in the cameras and sensors between HW2 and HW2.5. Does anyone know why Sentry mode doesn't or didn't work with HW2?
     
    • Informative x 2
  11. Kanting

    Kanting Member

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    The part number hasn't changed since day one. May 1655000-70-F live long enough to live forever!
     
  12. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    It works but it doesn’t record. The initial versions even recorded empty files so you could see the individual cameras were reacting to things corrently but there was no video in the files.
     
  13. azred

    azred Active Member

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    Days after this story broke, have there been any other reports of anyone receiving HW3?If you Google the topic, lots of outlets have picked up the story of this one guy supposedly getting the upgrade. Hmmm
     
  14. willow_hiller

    willow_hiller Active Member

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    If I recall correctly, there were a few reports on Reddit. The rumor is that something like 100 units were sent out to California service centers to install in a couple different variants of S/X for testing.
     
  15. azred

    azred Active Member

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    I see the guy reporting that he received HW3 is sort of a Tesla superfan so perhaps it isn’t that strange that his report of several days ago seems to be the only one I could find. Maybe there were other reports in Reddit as you note, but I haven’t seen any.
     
  16. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    That would make sense. They would want to install an initial batch - learn from those before starting an actual rollout.

    Inspite of what all the FUDsters and trolls are saying, Tesla's action here is consistent with what they have said earlier - Q4 for upgrades.
     
  17. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    Sounds good to me. I look forward to the upgrade in Q4.

    While I have my doubts based on Tesla’s track-record as to whether that will happen, I would agree nothing in these test installations precludes the possibility that it will. My concern never was technical anyway (I’m not in the AP2 can’t/won’t be updated camp either). It is a question whether or not Tesla who is trying to save money is willing to spend on this and when.

    But a Q4 retrofit is very welcome to me.
     
  18. boonedocks

    boonedocks Active Member

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    It is truly odd how you refer to many of us Tesla OWNERS as Trolls and FUDsters.

    We love our cars
    Some us on our 4th+ new Teslas
    AND because we hold Tesla / Elon to their word, nothing more...just what has been said and promised and tweeted etc etc etc. you have the audacity to call us Trolls/FUDsters..Stop the name calling since you obviously don't understand the difference in accountability and trolling/FUDstering
     
    • Like x 1
  19. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    I think it is just a (in my view misplaced and unnecessary) desire to help the TSLA stock while our concern is merely with our Tesla customer experience — and the Tesla customer experience of others in general.

    Different perspectives lead to different messaging.
     
  20. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    OT. Don't be a troll. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this.
     
    • Disagree x 1

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