Blog Model S Owner Surprised with Hardware 3 Retrofit

Tesla is reportedly retrofitting vehicles with its next-generation Hardware 3 computer that the company says will make autonomous driving possible.

Tesla owner Sofiaan Fraval shared on Twitter that his 2018 Model S P100D went into the the Tesla service center to replace a HEPA filter and came out with a new, more powerful computer.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1171894922259107840

“Performed the retrofit for the Full-Self Driving computer. Test drove and verified operation,” Tesla wrote in the service report. 

Fraval’s Model S was previously equipped with Hardware 2.5 and MCU v2. His car build date is April 2018.

Fraval noted that the retrofits are only available for Model S and Model X vehicles for now and owners are not yet able to request the swap.

All new Tesla vehicles come equipped with the new hardware, which includes a Samsung-built chip that has 21-times the performance of the previous Tesla hardware powered by Nvidia.

Tesla has emphasized that the chip is purpose-built for enabling vehicle autonomy.

Anyone else received a retrofit?

 

[run-the-joules]

Well in the same vein, the description does give a huge caveat, that it is unknown when each step of FSD will be released due to software validation and regulatory approval.

When I purchased the car I understood FSD wasn’t guaranteed to be right around the corner. When I purchased FSD later, I still understood FSD isn’t a 100% guarantee at the aggressive timelines posted by Tesla. Re-reading the statement you posted makes it pretty clear to me.

But that’s my interpretation.

Yes, but I damned well expect them to actually release the incremental features as they become ready, and so any upgrades necessary for me to use them.

 

[electronblue]

Well in the same vein, the description does give a huge caveat, that it is unknown when each step of FSD will be released due to software validation and regulatory approval.

When I purchased the car I understood FSD wasn’t guaranteed to be right around the corner. When I purchased FSD later, I still understood FSD isn’t a 100% guarantee at the aggressive timelines posted by Tesla. Re-reading the statement you posted makes it pretty clear to me.

But that’s my interpretation.

If only it had been that simple at the time... Who knew they were not accurate. (Well, @Bladerskb knew.)

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Absolutely agree 100% So where does this FSD processor exactly exist? I dont recall seeing any Full Self Driving vehicles on the road.

The "FSD computer" is Tesla's alternative/new name for HW3, and they've been shipping it in new vehicles since Mid-April.

Supposedly this HW3 computer plus the sensors, cameras and radar on current production cars will be enough for FSD. I have my doubts, but I'm looking forward to getting an updated main computer at sometime

If you didn't prepay for FSD, you don't get a free hardware upgrade from HW2.5 to HW3 (which has just started to happen), nor the more extensive upgrade for HW2-based vehicles to HW3, whose absence continues to cause angst to owners of HW2 + FSD vehicles.

 

[electronblue]

nor the more extensive upgrade for HW2-based vehicles to HW3, whose absence continues to cause angst to owners of HW2 + FSD vehicles.

You keep referring to this, but is there a source / reason to believe the HW3 retrofit/upgrade will be any more extensive as HW2.5s (ie mere computer swap)?

I do know HW2.5 has different sensors and redundancy components, but the word from high-up Tesla so far seems to have been FSD computer swap only...

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Is there any reason to think HW2 will get sensor upgrades? I believe all the talk from Elon has been around the FSD computer swap. HW2.5 already has redundancy HW2 will never get, I wonder if upgrading sensors would make any sense to Tesla either. I guess in theory it might make working on their vision easier if they swapped out the cameras.

Two reasons
1) The current set of sensors, cameras and radar on HW2.5 and HW3 vehicles is the minimum needed for FSD, so Tesla would have to upgrade to either that, or some close subset.
2) It would be silly for Tesla to have different FSD software for different sets of equipment. Just potentially doubles QA effort on each OTA.

"Close subset"... Its possible we have stuff in current production cars that isn't actually needed for FSD. Probably not, but if so, no need to have upgrade it.

 

[Ludalicious]

Two reasons
1) The current set of sensors, cameras and radar on HW2.5 and HW3 vehicles is the minimum needed for FSD, so Tesla would have to upgrade to either that, or some close subset.
2) It would be silly for Tesla to have different FSD software for different sets of equipment. Just potentially doubles QA effort on each OTA.

"Close subset"... Its possible we have stuff in current production cars that isn't actually needed for FSD. Probably not, but if so, no need to have upgrade it.

Ahhhhh Ok you seem to know exactly what needs to be done to have a vehicle with Full Self Driving capabilities.

I'm glad atleast one of us knows what were talking about.

 

[electronblue]

Two reasons
1) The current set of sensors, cameras and radar on HW2.5 and HW3 vehicles is the minimum needed for FSD, so Tesla would have to upgrade to either that, or some close subset.
2) It would be silly for Tesla to have different FSD software for different sets of equipment. Just potentially doubles QA effort on each OTA.

"Close subset"... Its possible we have stuff in current production cars that isn't actually needed for FSD. Probably not, but if so, no need to have upgrade it.

While I’m not saying some sensor retrofit is not possible — just that it has not been mentioned by any Tesla higher-ups as far as I can remember — retrofitting HW2.5 to HW2 cars is pretty much impossible in volume. The front radar with its additional cabling alone seems a no-go, let alone the e-fuses and steering redundancy...

Swapping the 7 cameras in HW2 cars might be doable, though, as that seems to be a more straightforward part-swap.

I still personally prepare for FSD computer swap only for HW2 FSD cars...

I agree it is silly for Tesla to have to target such diversity. But it is a result of them releasing the ”FSD” plan too early in 2016. MobilEye leaving may have forced their hand, but then again nothing forced them to make such dramatic forward-looking promises...

 

[EVNow]

Two reasons
1) The current set of sensors, cameras and radar on HW2.5 and HW3 vehicles is the minimum needed for FSD, so Tesla would have to upgrade to either that, or some close subset.
2) It would be silly for Tesla to have different FSD software for different sets of equipment. Just potentially doubles QA effort on each OTA.

"Close subset"... Its possible we have stuff in current production cars that isn't actually needed for FSD. Probably not, but if so, no need to have upgrade it.

Not sure about the first point. What is extra in HW2.5 cars vs HW2 ?

They have to weigh extra cost of QA vs extra cost of upgrading sensors etc.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Ahhhhh Ok you seem to know exactly what needs to be done to have a vehicle with Full Self Driving capabilities.

I'm glad atleast one of us knows what were talking about.

I don't know for sure (as I mentioned in an earlier post), but I'm pretty damn sure that the sensors, cameras and radar in the current production units are tequired at the very least.
I actually doubt if that's enough (as I mentioned earlier) since I'm not sure how certain edge cases could be handled correctly with the current setup. For example: Merging onto roundabouts, or Approaching slopped or slow vehicles around bends or over the brow of hills (or both).

Regardless, I don't actually care about "Full Self Driving", I just want more and better driver assist features. And better processing of the current driver assist features.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Two reasons
1) The current set of sensors, cameras and radar on HW2.5 and HW3 vehicles is the minimum needed for FSD, so Tesla would have to upgrade to either that, or some close subset.
2) It would be silly for Tesla to have different FSD software for different sets of equipment. Just potentially doubles QA effort on each OTA.

"Close subset"... Its possible we have stuff in current production cars that isn't actually needed for FSD. Probably not, but if so, no need to have upgrade it.

I dug in a little to the HW2 -> HW3 upgrade issue. Very interesting.
Using: Model S - Options by Year - Tesla Motors Club Wiki
Also: AP, AP1, AP2, EAP, FSD - Differences/Relations/Official Documentation? | Tesla

It looks like by late October 2016 Tesla started shipping Model S&X with HW2 and a supposedly full set of modern sensors, including 8 cameras and radar and 360` ultra-sonic sensors. So we could presume upgrading those units to HW3 might not require a lot of sensor/camera/radar work, but would require a more complex compute engine upgrade than HW2.5 -> HW3.
Questions persist whether Tesla would need to upgrade any of the sensors, cameras or the radar unit. For example: with higher resolution cameras or upgrade the signal bus. Until Tesla release the details of HW2 -> HW3 upgrades, we don't know the complexity of the upgrade.

Are there any earlier HW2-equiped vehicles, but without the modern setup of sensors, cameras and radar? It doesn't appear so, but its also a bit fuzzy.

HW2.5 starting shipping after August 2017 on S&X. These are the vehicles (with FSD license) who are currently getting updated, so we can presume since HW2.5 went into production, no additional upgrades to sensors, cameras and radar are currently required.

It is also interesting that Sentry mode initially required HW2.5, though there are reports of people with HW2 using it. Not sure if this constraint is related to just the better compute engine or something in the cameras and sensors between HW2 and HW2.5. Does anyone know why Sentry mode doesn't or didn't work with HW2?

 

[Kant.Ing]

The part number hasn't changed since day one. May 1655000-70-F live long enough to live forever!

 

[electronblue]

Does anyone know why Sentry mode doesn't or didn't work with HW2?

It works but it doesn’t record. The initial versions even recorded empty files so you could see the individual cameras were reacting to things corrently but there was no video in the files.

 

[azred]

Days after this story broke, have there been any other reports of anyone receiving HW3?If you Google the topic, lots of outlets have picked up the story of this one guy supposedly getting the upgrade. Hmmm

 

[willow_hiller]

Days after this story broke, have there been any other reports of anyone receiving HW3?If you Google the topic, lots of outlets have picked up the story of this one guy supposedly getting the upgrade. Hmmm

If I recall correctly, there were a few reports on Reddit. The rumor is that something like 100 units were sent out to California service centers to install in a couple different variants of S/X for testing.

 

[azred]

If I recall correctly, there were a few reports on Reddit. The rumor is that something like 100 units were sent out to California service centers to install in a couple different variants of S/X for testing.

I see the guy reporting that he received HW3 is sort of a Tesla superfan so perhaps it isn’t that strange that his report of several days ago seems to be the only one I could find. Maybe there were other reports in Reddit as you note, but I haven’t seen any.

 

[EVNow]

If I recall correctly, there were a few reports on Reddit. The rumor is that something like 100 units were sent out to California service centers to install in a couple different variants of S/X for testing.

That would make sense. They would want to install an initial batch - learn from those before starting an actual rollout.

Inspite of what all the FUDsters and trolls are saying, Tesla's action here is consistent with what they have said earlier - Q4 for upgrades.

 

[electronblue]

Inspite of what all the FUDsters and trolls are saying, Tesla's action here is consistent with what they have said earlier - Q4 for upgrades.

Sounds good to me. I look forward to the upgrade in Q4.

While I have my doubts based on Tesla’s track-record as to whether that will happen, I would agree nothing in these test installations precludes the possibility that it will. My concern never was technical anyway (I’m not in the AP2 can’t/won’t be updated camp either). It is a question whether or not Tesla who is trying to save money is willing to spend on this and when.

But a Q4 retrofit is very welcome to me.

 

[boonedocks]

That would make sense. They would want to install an initial batch - learn from those before starting an actual rollout.

Inspite of what all the FUDsters and trolls are saying, Tesla's action here is consistent with what they have said earlier - Q4 for upgrades.

It is truly odd how you refer to many of us Tesla OWNERS as Trolls and FUDsters.

We love our cars
Some us on our 4th+ new Teslas
AND because we hold Tesla / Elon to their word, nothing more...just what has been said and promised and tweeted etc etc etc. you have the audacity to call us Trolls/FUDsters..Stop the name calling since you obviously don't understand the difference in accountability and trolling/FUDstering

 

[electronblue]

It is truly odd how you refer to many of us Tesla OWNERS as Trolls and FUDsters.

We love our cars
Some us on our 4th+ new Teslas
AND because we hold Tesla / Elon to their word, nothing more...just what has been said and promised and tweeted etc etc etc. you have the audacity to call us Trolls/FUDsters..Stop the name calling since you obviously don't understand the difference in accountability and trolling/FUDstering

I think it is just a (in my view misplaced and unnecessary) desire to help the TSLA stock while our concern is merely with our Tesla customer experience — and the Tesla customer experience of others in general.

Different perspectives lead to different messaging.

 

[EVNow]

It is truly odd how you refer to many of us Tesla OWNERS as Trolls and FUDsters.

OT. Don't be a troll. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this.