Model S P85D lower and lower range for 3 - years - WARRANTY ENDING SOON - what to do?

[P85D-low-range]

Updates:

Tesla service has had my car for almost 3 weeks.
They finally called me yesterday and informed me the drive unit needed replacement (whining noise) and will be covered under warranty.

However they aren't commenting as to whether they plan to do anything on the battery - which was the issue I took it in for.

Any strategies or tips to get them to look at the battery replacement?

The fact I'm driving my P85D in chill mode all the time and only getting about 90-110 miles from 90% to 20% charge is quite bad.


Do you think I can convince them to stop the work on the drive unit, and 'total' my car - as the cost of drive unit + battery would be more than 70% of the value of my car (BMW and other brands do this)?

If so I'd consider trading in, but don't know if anyone has negotiated anything like this.
Personally I prefer to push for the battery replacement, because my car needs it with the pitiful range being 40-50% of what is stated - and that's in chill mode (w/ 19" wheels & tires).
Especially seeing as the car has premium connectivity and lifetime supercharging.

Thank in advance for any ideas, and for following this thread so far.

Ps. My 8-year drivetrain warranty ends in 2 days!

 

[Rocky_H]

Do you think I can convince them to stop the work on the drive unit, and 'total' my car - as the cost of drive unit + battery would be more than 70% of the value of my car (BMW and other brands do this)?

I don't see how BMW would make that decision. The decision of whether to designate a car as totaled is made by an insurance company, not by a car repair shop. The repair shop says how much the repairs would be, and the insurance company decides if they want to pay for the repair or just total it and pay out value instead. It may be that BMW repairs are usually so expensive that this happens very frequently with BMW cars, but it's still the insurance companies making that call.

 

[BrokerDon]

Updates:

Tesla service has had my car for almost 3 weeks.
They finally called me yesterday and informed me the drive unit needed replacement (whining noise) and will be covered under warranty.

However they aren't commenting as to whether they plan to do anything on the battery - which was the issue I took it in for.

Any strategies or tips to get them to look at the battery replacement?

The fact I'm driving my P85D in chill mode all the time and only getting about 90-110 miles from 90% to 20% charge is quite bad.


Do you think I can convince them to stop the work on the drive unit, and 'total' my car - as the cost of drive unit + battery would be more than 70% of the value of my car (BMW and other brands do this)?

If so I'd consider trading in, but don't know if anyone has negotiated anything like this.
Personally I prefer to push for the battery replacement, because my car needs it with the pitiful range being 40-50% of what is stated - and that's in chill mode (w/ 19" wheels & tires).
Especially seeing as the car has premium connectivity and lifetime supercharging.

Thank in advance for any ideas, and for following this thread so far.

Ps. My 8-year drivetrain warranty ends in 2 days!

Which drive unit was replaced? My 2015 P85D's drive unit with 72,000 miles is also whining, especially in Range Mode.

Hope you get a new 90kWh replacement battery.

I'm VERY interested in your outcome since my P85D+ 8-year HV battery & drive unit + my 8-year extended warranty expire in 6 months... and I'm also in Orange County.

Also, what "software" did you use to diagnose your 85 kWh battery issues

 

[P85D-low-range]

I don't see how BMW would make that decision. The decision of whether to designate a car as totaled is made by an insurance company, not by a car repair shop. The repair shop says how much the repairs would be, and the insurance company decides if they want to pay for the repair or just total it and pay out value instead. It may be that BMW repairs are usually so expensive that this happens very frequently with BMW cars, but it's still the insurance companies making that call.

No, it's not the insurance companies. I'll explain it. By 'total' I mean buyback and replace with credit. BMW has a formula for this based on the repair cost - eg. on an V10-engined BMW M5 with warranty, if an engine replacement is $35,000 parts and labor internal cost, and the car is worth about the same $35k, it's 100% of the value of the car for the service. and is worth it to replace the vehicle rather than do the repair, as the remaining parts are worth more than $0, and by buying it back, they will not only save money, but give the customer the option to buy a newer car without the issues they came into warranty service for. Their formula designates what % of the value must be exceeded before the buyback offer is presented, typically 70%. Trying to stay on topic, back to the point of my example:

If it costs Tesla $20k in warranty claims on a car worth $45k, they would likely do the repair at their cost, but if it costs tesla 35k on a car worth 35k, they might offer the customer to not do the repair and to give them a credit towards purchase of a vehicle, if they sign the title of the vehicle needing repair to tesla, so they can sell it for parts, do R&D, or crush it, or whatever they want to do.

Similar with lemon cars, when a car is designated a lemon (law in some states, look it up if needed), the manufacturer has to buy the car back - and then cannot resell the car because it has a branded title.
My example was illustrating a scenario when the manufacturer doesn't have to buy it back as in a lemon law car, but *may choose* to offer to do so in the name of overall cost savings, customer loyalty, brand reputation, and/or getting a trade in effectively to help sell another new car and raise their sales volume (sometimes manufacturers and/or dealers have reasons to do this, particularly before the end of a month or quarter).

 

[P85D-low-range]

Which drive unit was replaced? My 2015 P85D's drive unit with 72,000 miles is also whining, especially in Range Mode.

Hope you get a new 90kWh replacement battery.

I'm VERY interested in your outcome since my P85D+ 8-year HV battery & drive unit + my 8-year extended warranty expire in 6 months... and I'm also in Orange County.

Also, what "software" did you use to diagnose your 85 kWh battery issues

They are still working on it, they've had the car almost a month at this point. I assume it is the rear one, powering the rear wheels.

So far (last week), they kept saying they'd have their technician call me with an update, but have still not done so. I asked for updates and more explanation in the Tesla app service screen, but no detail or call back yet.

How can I try to get a new 90 kWh replacement battery?

 

[krsgio]

How can I try to get a new 90 kWh replacement battery?

Usually paying them $22k is a good start

 

[Rocky_H]

No, it's not the insurance companies. I'll explain it.

[explains some procedure BMW does to try to sell more cars] That is simply giving a repair estimate, as I mentioned.

By 'total' I mean buyback and replace with credit.

That is just not the definition of totaling a car, which is something insurance companies do.

Car dealers can make buyback offers any time they fell like, regardless of how high or low a repair estimate is. That's unrelated.

Similar with lemon cars, when a car is designated a lemon (law in some states, look it up if needed), the manufacturer has to buy the car back - and then cannot resell the car because it has a branded title.

Not similar. That's required of them, not just an offer they choose to do. I'm not as familar with the lemon law conditions about how the titles are treated. Cars marked as totaled by insurance can usually be restored to road certified as "salvage" condition. I don't know if that's allowed for cars that were marked as lemon or not.

 

[BrokerDon]

They are still working on it, they've had the car almost a month at this point. I assume it is the rear one, powering the rear wheels.

So far (last week), they kept saying they'd have their technician call me with an update, but have still not done so. I asked for updates and more explanation in the Tesla app service screen, but no detail or call back yet.

How can I try to get a new 90 kWh replacement battery?

What's the latest on your rear drive unit and 85 / 90 kWh replacement battery requests ???

 

[P85D-low-range]

What's the latest on your rear drive unit and 85 / 90 kWh replacement battery requests ???

Key updates, in sequential order:

• For 2 weeks, I was told by the advisor that the techs saw a problem with my battery and were reviewing and discussing it in meetings, but he couldn't provide me more info or technical details, and said the tech would call me 'tomorrow' several times. After not getting the call for almost 2 weeks of anticipating it, I went in person a couple times, but still could not talk to the tech or get any technical detail from the advisor. I understood from the service advisor that they were continuing to review it, and they would call me as soon as they had a conclusion. He was very polite, which was nice.
• I went again in person (5th time since car has been there) and decided not to leave until I talk to a tech, and was able to talk to a very polite and patient tech on Thursday evening (about 30 mins wait). He told me to take the car and charge it on 110v to rebalance the BMS. I told him that I have done this suggestion many times, on 220v and 110v, and it simply does not help, and that it seemed to be a cop out answer by Tesla service to get rid of me each time - as they always said they'd monitor and follow-up with me, but I never once got a follow-up. He then said if I want I can escalate to a higher level of engineering. But then asked me to take the car again. I told him this was the exact same outcome as 3 months ago during service, and every previous time I have reported it in the last 4 years, and nothing came out of those previous times. He understood, and I asked him to please escalate to engineering as he offered to have a deeper look at it.
• Strangely, the next morning the ticket was closed out despite our conversation, and despite no resolution or further feedback. They certainly didn't have time to escalate to engineering or provide feedback. Also, the $92.50 charge which was previously waved (due to the fact I brought the car in under warranty, and this was a follow up from the non-fix from 3 months ago, from the non-fixes the times before that) was added back to my ticket, which was suddenly closed. Very disappointing.
• I had a missed call from a different tech later on Friday, which I returned, but we were not able to reach each other.
• On Monday, I got a note in the Tesla app under service saying to pick my car up - and I would be charged storage fees after 48 hours. This was disappointing, considering I was told my issue would be escalated to engineering. Instead there was no resolution and I was hit with a new charge, and pushed to take my car back without a fix or explanation, despite my meeting on Thursday. I was exploring all of my options, when suddenly...
• Yesterday I received a call from another tech there. We had a nice 20+ minute phone call (mind you, the first call I had with a tech in my car being there for a month). It was the first time someone with deep technical knowledge called me. The conclusion was that they would look at the captured data which I provided, and they asked me to send it to them.
• I have sent it to them, and am awaiting their response. I made a document showing all the real world charge stats, and real world range and battery capacity (it's not good)!

There seem to have been a few communication issues with the service center, or between whoever is messaging me in the app, the techs, the management, and the service advisor. Although they've all been polite over the phone and in person, the behavior of whoever is controlling my ticket does not match what others are telling me (eg. closing it prematurely, getting me to order a part that was needed to service the drive unit). So I've seen a bit of disconnect. But it's a new service center so I'm cutting them some slack and also trying to be as patient as possible, and hope I get escalated to the right channels.

My calculated kWh of my battery pack between various data gathering apps has shown the effective battery capacity to be much lower than even I expected. I have shared this data with them. Let's hope they do something good with it, and not close the ticket again without verifying and trying to get me a real fix. I'm into the brand and I hope they keep me this way, I have made my case well with data, and hope they do their part.

 

[Electric700]

P85D-low-range, I am curious to know that when you get your issue fixed, are you going to delete your account on here and create a new one? Because you will no longer have the low range issue so it won't make sense to have that name for your user ID.

You may also want to have www.057tech.com review your situation. Note that they offer a main battery warranty and actually can do repairs / replacements when needed for close to $5k. Some other things to check:

1. Proper air pressure, usually 42 or 45 PSI for all tires can help improve range.
2. Disable external or continuously monitoring applications and enable Energy Saving Mode if you have it. Disable Always Connected from the Tesla menu (if that option is available).
3. Weather / low temperatures can have a negative impact on range. Try to precondition your vehicle when connected to a charging station. If it's 40 F out, you may be able to save more energy by using the heated seats while also lowering the AC temperature a few degrees.
4. Driving near the speed limit can help your vehicle be more efficient (and prevent a ticket). If possible, avoid a lot of rapid acceleration. Also, try to drive close to the same speed. Using the Adaptive Cruise Control or Autopilot for this will help.
5. You can check your Wh/mile from the Energy screen. The lower the number, the better. What was it the last time you checked?

 

[Electric700]

Which drive unit was replaced? My 2015 P85D's drive unit with 72,000 miles is also whining, especially in Range Mode.

...

Your warranty expires this year or has already expired? Tesla should be able to replace your drive unit with a new and improved version for free since this is included in the 8 year / unlimited mile warranty, but you need to schedule an appointment with them using the Tesla app right away if your warranty is active.

 

[ucmndd]

Unfortunately this is the sort of runaround you can expect when repeatedly trying to make a claim under terms of a warranty that don't exist.

 

[P85D-low-range]

P85D-low-range, I am curious to know that when you get your issue fixed, are you going to delete your account on here and create a new one? Because you will no longer have the low range issue so it won't make sense to have that name for your user ID.

You may also want to have www.057tech.com review your situation. Note that they offer a main battery warranty and actually can do repairs / replacements when needed for close to $5k. Some other things to check:

1. Proper air pressure, usually 42 or 45 PSI for all tires can help improve range.
2. Disable external or continuously monitoring applications and enable Energy Saving Mode if you have it. Disable Always Connected from the Tesla menu (if that option is available).
3. Weather / low temperatures can have a negative impact on range. Try to precondition your vehicle when connected to a charging station. If it's 40 F out, you may be able to save more energy by using the heated seats while also lowering the AC temperature a few degrees.
4. Driving near the speed limit can help your vehicle be more efficient (and prevent a ticket). If possible, avoid a lot of rapid acceleration. Also, try to drive close to the same speed. Using the Adaptive Cruise Control or Autopilot for this will help.
5. You can check your Wh/mile from the Energy screen. The lower the number, the better. What was it the last time you checked?

Funny about the account name. I suppose so, if it ever gets fixed. 4 years of no hope so far.

I did / am doing all of these suggestions, they are accurate. I used to have a Honda Insight and am aware how to hypermile - I could get 77-80 MPG consistently when other people were getting 55 MPG in that vehicle. That being said, I didn't buy the Performance version to have to do this all of the time, just to get 60% of the stated range. But that's what is happening, driving like a super hypermiling grandma to get 60-ish% of the stated range, w chill mode, range mode, energy stuff disabled, all of the above... and it's still off by 40% on the range estimate. Really terrible!

Wh/mile are low 300s. Tire pressure closer to 50 PSI.

 

[P85D-low-range]

Your warranty expires this year or has already expired? Tesla should be able to replace your drive unit with a new and improved version for free since this is included in the 8 year / unlimited mile warranty, but you need to schedule an appointment with them using the Tesla app right away if your warranty is active.

It expired during the time it has been at Tesla Service, which was 2 weeks ago. It took me a month to get this appointment, after having another appointment for the same thing back in November for the exact same thing.
They did replace the drive unit, but that's not my main concern or problem I took it in for.

I assume once I leave service, they won't allow warranty claims any further as I'm now past the 8 year mark. Or do they allow it if it the issue was registered before the warranty expired?

Unfortunately this is the sort of runaround you can expect when repeatedly trying to make a claim under terms of a warranty that don't exist.

I hope this isn't the case - I hope they have a real warranty for the battery.

 

[P85D-low-range]

Also noteworthy: On TeslaFi, of of the all P85D in their database with similar mileage (68,000 - 70,000 mi), ALL 24 of the other vehicles have greater range than mine, by an average of 16 miles. Mine is in last place among the entire fleet.

In real world, my 219 mile stated range does not equate to more than 140 miles, so my range not only the worst out of 25 similar vehicles w/ similar year and mileage, but is probably worse by an even larger margin than TeslaFi is capturing.

Data shows more significant degradation than ALL other similar vehicles in the fleet.

 

[Doanster1]

Also noteworthy: On TeslaFi, of of the all P85D in their database with similar mileage (68,000 - 70,000 mi), ALL 24 of the other vehicles have greater range than mine, by an average of 16 miles. Mine is in last place among the entire fleet.

In real world, my 219 mile stated range does not equate to more than 140 miles, so my range not only the worst out of 25 similar vehicles w/ similar year and mileage, but is probably worse by an even larger margin than TeslaFi is capturing.

Data shows more significant degradation than ALL other similar vehicles in the fleet.

Is the 140mi across a normal “week” of driving or is that even under road trip conditions?
Reason I ask is that I’ve been logging trip data the past two charge sessions. For the first set of data, there was 14% total phantom drain (31 miles) over the course of 7 days. I did not preheat each morning so the battery was cold as lows were in the 30s most of the week. All trips were short (12miles or less). Ending data showed 122 miles actually travelled vs 155 miles of rated range consumed, so a delta of 33 miles “lost”. Given the cold battery each trip and amount of phantom drain, it doesn’t look completely out of whack even though 122 miles of actual distance is low.
I’m hoping if I went in a road trip I’d get 180+ if not going crazy with the speed.
Second set if data already looking a bit better since temps climbed and the battery wasn’t cold on multiple morning trips.

 

[CB198]

No resolution still. I took it in for service and they said again that the battery is fine.

I'm averaging 415 wh/Mi

I had this same issue and it turns out that the motors were failing and causing energy loss. Check the underbody for coolant leaks.

 

[Electric700]

Unfortunately this is the sort of runaround you can expect when repeatedly trying to make a claim under terms of a warranty that don't exist.

I used to have a 2014 Model S and the drive unit / motor starting making a high-pitched sound when running. Thankfully they replaced it under warranty for free. Now the warranty for the 2023 Model S and X is 8 years or 150,000 miles, with a 70% minimum battery capacity guarantee.

 

[BrokerDon]

Funny about the account name. I suppose so, if it ever gets fixed. 4 years of no hope so far.

I did / am doing all of these suggestions, they are accurate. I used to have a Honda Insight and am aware how to hypermile - I could get 77-80 MPG consistently when other people were getting 55 MPG in that vehicle. That being said, I didn't buy the Performance version to have to do this all of the time, just to get 60% of the stated range. But that's what is happening, driving like a super hypermiling grandma to get 60-ish% of the stated range, w chill mode, range mode, energy stuff disabled, all of the above... and it's still off by 40% on the range estimate. Really terrible!

Wh/mile are low 300s. Tire pressure closer to 50 PSI.

You ARE driving your P85D like a Hypermiling grandma if your Wh/mile are low 300s.

My 2015 P85D with Ludicrous upgrade, Plus Suspension, lightweight staggered Arachnid wheels, and 21" Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires at 42 PSI in warm SoCal has only averaged 364 Wh/mile for the past 30,000 miles... and I thought I was driving conservatively.

 

[Doanster1]

You ARE driving your P85D like a Hypermiling grandma if your Wh/mile are low 300s.

My 2015 P85D with Ludicrous upgrade, Plus Suspension, lightweight staggered Arachnid wheels, and 21" Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires at 42 PSI in warm SoCal has only averaged 364 Wh/mile for the past 30,000 miles... and I thought I was driving conservatively.

That’s basically what I average as well with staggered 20s. I run 46psi to help with the rear tire wear.