Model S Plaid Brakes Are Terrible!

[GDawg614]

Ive touched my rear brakes and they've been warmer than the fronts in regular driving... they're definitely used

Interesting!

Couple thoughts:

(1) With regenerative braking, are the front brakes actually used LESS than the rear brakes?

(2) When I switched to carbon ceramic brakes on sports car, I immediately noticed how much cleaner the front wheels are ... realized it's brake dust more than road debris getting the front wheels dirty. I've only had my Plaid for about 6 weeks and the front wheels are still awful clean without washing the car (spring in Ohio = rain) ... will the regenerative braking keep my front wheels cleaner than steel brakes on a ICE car?

 

[lolachampcar]

Interesting!

Couple thoughts:

(1) With regenerative braking, are the front brakes actually used LESS than the rear brakes?

(2) When I switched to carbon ceramic brakes on sports car, I immediately noticed how much cleaner the front wheels are ... realized it's brake dust more than road debris getting the front wheels dirty. I've only had my Plaid for about 6 weeks and the front wheels are still awful clean without washing the car (spring in Ohio = rain) ... will the regenerative braking keep my front wheels cleaner than steel brakes on a ICE car?

Likely depends on how aggressive you are.
I hardly ever use friction brakes and, like you, have near zero dusting albeit a bit more on the fronts than the rears.
I guess if you are aggressive enough on the handling you could get the rears to dust more. TC kicks in a bit for high speed corners for me but it is really rare.

Seeing the F12 made me smile. I remember my first MS stopping shorter than my Maranello. That was interesting. With the Plaid, I find it harder and harder to explain that noise, vibration, stink and needing to warm up that oil stuff that comes with ICE

 

[Gninoked]

What did you do with the anti-rattle clips? I wonder how much "feel" is improved just by addressing the anti-rattle clips vs. the actual rotors?

I believe Sasha bent them a bit for us. The rotors aren't improving the feel, they are improving the capacity and the recovery (they shed heat faster) which can help feel as a side effect if the system is not going above thermal design limits etc.

 

[Gninoked]

Source? I know Tesla does this in track mode for the Model 3 Performance, but with two independent motors in the rear, they can just use each motor for torque vectoring without having to use rear brakes.

We cranked the 'Stability Assist' down to '-10' in Track Mode and can go pretty hard and not trigger the rear brakes at all. Big slides, even ones that uncorrected will cause a spin are possible without intervention. Agree that part of this could be due to the control afforded by torque vectoring, but there's no way for us to know. We do know from reviewing data Track Mode is adjusting power to counter wheel slip as you might expect.

 

[oktane]

I believe Sasha bent them a bit for us. The rotors aren't improving the feel, they are improving the capacity and the recovery (they shed heat faster) which can help feel as a side effect if the system is not going above thermal design limits etc.

I do not intend to track the car, I wonder if adjusting the clips is enough for my purposes. Stopping the car seems to require more force and pedal travel than I prefer.

 

[MountainPass]

I do not intend to track the car, I wonder if adjusting the clips is enough for my purposes. Stopping the car seems to require more force and pedal travel than I prefer.

Bending the clips will reduce the pedal travel by a bit but it won't affect the amount of force required to stop!

 

[Gninoked]

I do not intend to track the car, I wonder if adjusting the clips is enough for my purposes. Stopping the car seems to require more force and pedal travel than I prefer.

Sure - clips are easy so maybe worth a shot but I believe that this is due mainly to the pads. A more performance oriented compound will feel much better. Depending on how you drive most of the time on the street (<.3g stops at <90soc) the pads are not even used - it's just regen, so I think getting pads that are performance oriented makes sense when you actually push the pedal and want to stop more quickly or from higher speeds.

Separate from the pads, Blake was checking out our pedal as compared to his stockish setup and said that the pedal on ours eventually stops once the compliance is out of the system, on the stock one it doesn't. That's likely due to the other parts we are talking about, the clips, the brace, etc.

 

[oktane]

Sure - clips are easy so maybe worth a shot but I believe that this is due mainly to the pads. A more performance oriented compound will feel much better. Depending on how you drive most of the time on the street (<.3g stops at <90soc) the pads are not even used - it's just regen, so I think getting pads that are performance oriented makes sense when you actually push the pedal and want to stop more quickly or from higher speeds.

Separate from the pads, Blake was checking out our pedal as compared to his stockish setup and said that the pedal on ours eventually stops once the compliance is out of the system, on the stock one it doesn't. That's likely due to the other parts we are talking about, the clips, the brace, etc.

I guess pads and clips are an easy first step then. For me, on the street or highway, if I need to stop it's like push the pedal and hmm..... that needed a lot more pedal travel and effort than I was planning. Bedding the brakes made no difference. I've never had a car where I felt the brakes required so much effort compared to this. Normally on Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, etc. the brakes just work and slow the car down ridiculously well for street use. I also never noticed a problem on Tesla's prior to the Plaid.

 

[Gninoked]

I guess pads and clips are an easy first step then. For me, on the street or highway, if I need to stop it's like push the pedal and hmm..... that needed a lot more pedal travel and effort than I was planning. Bedding the brakes made no difference. I've never had a car where I felt the brakes required so much effort compared to this. Normally on Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, etc. the brakes just work and slow the car down ridiculously well for street use. I also never noticed a problem on Tesla's prior to the Plaid.

The pads were clearly selected for comfort not performance and are pretty low friction. One hint - the brake setup on the non-'+' version of the plaid (the one we are all able to buy right now) are the same as the ones on the LR.

 

[tm1v2]

The pads were clearly selected for comfort not performance and are pretty low friction. One hint - the brake setup on the non-'+' version of the plaid (the one we are all able to buy right now) are the same as the ones on the LR.

Has Tesla ever fitted an S performance model with different brakes than the lower end versions?

 

[Gninoked]

Has Tesla ever fitted an S performance model with different brakes than the lower end versions?

That's a good question - I don't know about all the S models but I'm not sure it matters because none of the S models were designed to work on a road course. The first model Tesla created that was road course capable was the Model 3 Performance and that did come with different brakes, and eventually a track pack with track pads as well.

 

[MarcG]

That's a good question - I don't know about all the S models but I'm not sure it matters because none of the S models were designed to work on a road course. The first model Tesla created that was road course capable was the Model 3 Performance and that did come with different brakes, and eventually a track pack with track pads as well.

The Performance S models had red calipers

 

[tm1v2]

The Performance S models had red calipers

In my P85's era the red calipers were a standalone option. And they were simply...red. Not any different or better. Just $500 of red caliper paint.

 

[MarcG]

In my P85's era the red calipers were a standalone option. And they were simply...red. Not any different or better. Just $500 of red caliper paint.

Yeah I was being facetious.. same calipers and pads on all S models, just a color difference. I wish the Plaid came with stock brakes that matched the crazy power & weight..

I decided to keep my RB rotors for now and ordered G-LOC R12 pads from silentspeed.com - hopefully will get them soon so I can test them out on the track.

 

[FlatSix911]

Yeah I was being facetious.. same calipers and pads on all S models, just a color difference. I wish the Plaid came with stock brakes that matched the crazy power & weight..

I decided to keep my RB rotors for now and ordered G-LOC R12 pads from silentspeed.com - hopefully will get them soon so I can test them out on the track.

Tesla could have spec'd high-performance track pads, but that would have created another set of problems with new owners not knowing to how to bed in the pads and rotors before driving aggressively. There are a lot of examples of off-track incidents due to inexperienced drivers not properly bedding race pads/rotors.

 

[lolachampcar]

Tesla could have spec'd high-performance track pads, but that would have created another set of problems with new owners not knowing to how to bed in the pads and rotors before driving aggressively. There are a lot of examples of off-track incidents due to inexperienced drivers not properly bedding race pads/rotors.

Hmmmmm
I kinda had a bedding problem with the stock brakes on my Plaid. It was like stopping with buttered banana peals at first which is really bad news. I can imagine some just ripping on the car, standing on the pedal and glazing the rotors so that they will never bed correctly (without grinding the junk off the rotors first). It was not as bad as race pads but it was bad.

 

[lbowroom]

Hmmmmm
I kinda had a bedding problem with the stock brakes on my Plaid. It was like stopping with buttered banana peals at first which is really bad news. I can imagine some just ripping on the car, standing on the pedal and glazing the rotors so that they will never bed correctly (without grinding the junk off the rotors first). It was not as bad as race pads but it was bad.

Yeah that was weird as you didn't have the same experience with your next S that should be the exact same setup. I haven't read about anyone having the issue that you did initially either. Did you get that sorted out?

 

[lolachampcar]

I never really beat on my wife's car at all. I took it out and slowly built heat and transferred pad to the rotor. Feel was acceptable throughout the process and she has had no complaints (although she does not really use the brakes all that much with regen).

 

[patgilm]

Just curious, are the Plaid calipers the same as any of the other Performance model calipers? I was thinking that when I upgrade the rotors and pads I would consider buying a set of red Performance calipers rather than taking mine off and getting them powder coated.

 

[MarcG]

Just curious, are the Plaid calipers the same as any of the other Performance model calipers? I was thinking that when I upgrade the rotors and pads I would consider buying a set of red Performance calipers rather than taking mine off and getting them powder coated.

I don’t think so, as the front rotors on the previous S (365mm) and current 3 Performance (355mm) are smaller than the refresh S/X (380mm).