Model S plaid vs Model 3 performance driving dynamics

[stevehifi]

I'm not sure if this is a strange question, but wondering if someone ever compared both the Plaid and M3P in terms of driving dynamics? I know the Plaid is alot
heavier but is the fun factor the same or better since it has so much more power?

 

[Black306]

Give me a Plaid to bea…er…drive for a week, and I’ll reply back.

 

[tm1v2]

These are the two most useful, on-point Palladium/Plaid vs older/other Tesla driving dynamics comparisons I've read.

Note both were written WITHOUT experiencing the Plaid's Track Mode yet, which apparently firms up the suspension beyond the regular range of settings, and enables more aggressive torque vectoring taking advantage the two rear motors. Plus all the other features and benefits from M3P Track Mode.

In particular Plaid's Track Mode should resolve the issue that MPP and some car reviewers noted of not being allowed to use the power coming out of turns until the car is pointed very straight. (To be fair that's an issue in the Model 3 outside of Track Mode too. Though maybe not as stark is in the hugely powerful Plaid.)

https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/remembrance-looking-forward-and-plaid/

MountainPass:

I need to stop here and mention that I much prefer driving the Model 3 on the track – it feels nimble, pointy, light, responsive. The Plaid, even with our upgrades, just doesn’t give the same feeling. The slow steering rack and massively wide yoke make the steering inputs slower than the 3 (although it’s much, much more responsive with the bearing upgrade and front camber), and the brake pedal is vague, long, and woodlike. The inability to use that 1000hp until you’re dead straight leaves you frustrated and wanting more.

Track Mode is coming soon for the Plaid, and it should significantly improve things, but despite the lack of power, my heart is still with the Model 3! I don’t think the Plaid is a good car for the beginner and I would urge anyone with a Plaid that wants to go to the track to only drive it in Sport Mode. That gives you 700hp and is already too much. Until you master the car in sport mode, you should never go into Plaid mode on the track.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6420083/

I had, and still have available, a 2014 P85DL+ for 80k miles and now moved up to Plaid. The refresh is definitely not the floaty loose feeling that you had on post + suspensions, and especially not on the older pre 2014 suspensions.

First the skidpad numbers are much much better on the refresh — really quite amazing beating the Corvette. See chart below from the Car and Driver December article. I suspect the LR has the same suspension but different tires.

For road feeling and feedback, the refresh is softer than the + or Model 3, but much much better than the old Model S non+.
I think there is zero chance you will be unhappy with the move from the P85DL to the Refresh. IF you are really worried about handling you might consider the Plaid to get track mode and be able to fine tune things with that, although I haven’t even used my track mode at all yet.

 

[Young Phenom]

From the reviews I've seen, people love the plaid for the acceleration, but love driving the M3P.

 

[stevehifi]

it's tough because I can't drive the plaid or even the model s for that matter.. none of the tesla dealers have them on hand anymore because
of demand.
I know the price difference between the two is astronomical but just wondering if the crazy power is worth the leap and if that comes with substantial
handling prowess to match it.

 

[Sam1]

it's tough because I can't drive the plaid or even the model s for that matter.. none of the tesla dealers have them on hand anymore because
of demand.
I know the price difference between the two is astronomical but just wondering if the crazy power is worth the leap and if that comes with substantial
handling prowess to match it.

If they could make the M3P like the plaid so that it holds the same acceleration from 0-162 instead of mainly 0-60, it would be an amazing vehicle. I had an order in for a plaid before they were released and canceled it after driving my neighbor's MSP raven. the thing was like driving a boat compared to the M3P even just driving curves on the street.

 

[tm1v2]

@Sam1 By all accounts the new Palladium S has much better dynamics than a Raven. But I'm extremely doubtful that it feels as nimble or fun to toss around as an M3P. It's just too big, heck it's even wider than past S models. The smaller size and lower weight of the 3 pays dividends in dynamics.

Most S I've driven feel like a boat compared to a Model 3, including the S P85 that I own. The P85+ suspension was MUCH better, but still a big boi...if I drove one now I doubt it would rival the Model 3 for playful driving fun. (S has other upsides of course, just a different kind of car.)

 

[stevehifi]

yeah 4800lbs is hard to mask with any suspension.. the germans are great at doing this.. but not sure about Tesla.
Sounds to me that the plaid is more like an electric muscle car (4 door dodge demon) than even an m5 competitor.

 

[Mash]

Plaid is still a highway car in manners. If MPP with mods still feel that way, it's by design. M3P is fun. I would switch to RS if they would do it and to Roadster if that would ever happen. But I don't like feeling old when I'm driving a car.

I'm sure Plaid can be a platform for the track car if you put another 100K in it. But a fast track car is not the same as fun street car.

For long road trips Plaid sounds like a perfect car, though. But I just rather rent it for such cases.

 

[tm1v2]

I think the Plaid is much more than just a straight-line muscle car. The S always got around turns decently quick with good tires, thanks to its favorable weight distribution. Now the S has its most serious suspension in years (or maybe ever), and dual rear motors for real torque vectoring, and it outgrips pretty much everything that's not a supercar or wearing cheater race tires. That includes the M3P - stock-vs-stock the new S for sure can get around corners quicker, if you've got the guts for it and if the nannies allow (Track Mode maybe needed).

But the stock M3P suspension is a sloppy mess when pushed hard, and its PZ4 tires are lackluster. Both hold the M3P back from its full cornering potential. I think the M3P has a lot more upside left on the table for upgrades than a Plaid.

 

[Sam1]

yeah 4800lbs is hard to mask with any suspension.. the germans are great at doing this.. but not sure about Tesla.
Sounds to me that the plaid is more like an electric muscle car (4 door dodge demon) than even an m5 competitor.

With that awesome german engineering though, you get things like...a PCV valve integrated into a valve cover, which requires the removal of half your engine bay and fuel lines and pipes and wires, and a $500 cost, instead of being able to just snap on a new $20 PCV valve.

<that's the end of my rant, need to get back to working on that POS>

 

[stevehifi]

I think the Plaid is much more than just a straight-line muscle car. The S always got around turns decently quick with good tires, thanks to its favorable weight distribution. Now the S has its most serious suspension in years (or maybe ever), and dual rear motors for real torque vectoring, and it outgrips pretty much everything that's not a supercar or wearing cheater race tires. That includes the M3P - stock-vs-stock the new S for sure can get around corners quicker, if you've got the guts for it and if the nannies allow (Track Mode maybe needed).

But the stock M3P suspension is a sloppy mess when pushed hard, and its PZ4 tires are lackluster. Both hold the M3P back from its full cornering potential. I think the M3P has a lot more upside left on the table for upgrades than a Plaid.

I drove a 2022 M3P and it had the pirelli pzero tires.. it seemed to handle pretty well and tons of grip. I'm not sure which year of M3P you drove .. maybe
they've improved the car from the time you drove it?

 

[tm1v2]

I drove a 2022 M3P and it had the pirelli pzero tires.. it seemed to handle pretty well and tons of grip. I'm not sure which year of M3P you drove .. maybe
they've improved the car from the time you drove it?

@stevehifi I have an October 2021 M3P, it came with the same wheels+tires as the 2022 you drove. I think it comes down to what you're used to. If you don't want more grip, then you don't need more grip! Yes it has plenty for any sane street driving...I'm just used to a little more.

My last sporty car (years ago) had less weight (under 3400 lbs), similar stock wheel+tire width (245 on 8.5" wide), and I ran sticky 200TW street/track dual use tires on it, ones that gripped well even cold on the street. (I was doing occasional track days back then. Not anymore though.)

So with the M3P I found myself wanting a little more grip. At first I figured 4000 lbs is simply a lot of weight for 235mm street-focused tires. And it is. But then I switched to 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport on 18x8.5" wheels. I expected a smidge more grip because the Potenza Sport rate higher than the PZ4 in most comparisons, but I actually got quite a lot more grip (subjectively). Where the PZ4 would squeal and slip, the Potenza Sport just hold on without complaint. And I swear they grip better in the wet than the PZ4 did in the dry. Dry vs dry it's no comparison at all. I didn't hate the PZ4, they were way better than a non-performance tire like the MXM4 that the base Model 3 comes with. But it's clear to me now the PZ4 are lacking compared to some better options in their class.

Going into the wheel+tire change I didn't think 245s would really be enough to satisfy me for 4000 lbs of EV. My plan was to eventually get wider wheels+tires for summer and switch the 18x8.5" wheels to winter duty. As it turned out, with better tires I'm totally happy with 245s on 18x8.5" for summer use. Which is great, because it's cheaper and more range efficient than going wider. And now I'm thinking about 18x8" for winter.

You'll find plenty of people here who wouldn't be satisfied with my wheel+tire setup! 18x9.5" and 19x9.5" wearing 265mm tires seem to be common setups on the M3P, easy fitments with usefull more grip. Some folks are pushing things further with 10-10.5" wide square setups. I think most going really wide are doing some amount of track time or autox, where the extra grip is most useful, but I bet some just want the extra grip for the street because they're used to it.

 

[MasterC17]

If I were to summarize it briefly; the Model 3 is a more enjoyable car to drive in the sense of it feels like a Miata to an M5.

The Model 3 is really only quick up to about 80mph, and then the straight line speed loses its excitement, but the chassis is phenomenal and it's a very enjoyable car to drive on both the street and the track. It's highly responsive and nimble. You really feel like you are one with the car.

The Plaid, on the other hand, is a lot of fun to drive in a straight line, and it's a nice long distance cruiser, but that's about it. It's unwieldy, notably heavier, the steering ratio is garbage, and the Yoke (contrary to popular opinion) is the exact opposite style of wheel I would want on a vehicle being driven aggressively. Yoke is fine for DD, FWIW.

In conclusion, the jump from a Performance 3/Y to the Plaid is simply not worth it IMO if you're looking for a great driving experience. In fact, the Long Range S is already incredibly fast, and when it was $80k was a phenomenal value. Less so at $95k. I found the Plaid to be almost overwhelming to drive. It's hilariously fast in a straight line though, and is an obviously superior car for highway cruising.

I dream of the day (hopefully soon) where we can have a Plaid-like powertrain in the Model 3. Peak horsepower isn't even terribly important, just a nice, flat curve and a battery that can sustain that output over long periods of time. We also could really use a larger pack, ~80kWh just isn't enough IMO.

It's also worth mentioning the new Model S is so incredibly superior to the outgoing Model S that the two are not even comparable. The body may be the same, but the underlying architecture is leaps and bounds better. I wouldn't even consider purchasing an older S.