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Model S plaid vs. Model 3 Performance
- Thread starter loomstate
- Start date
To answer why? Because I was trading in my performance that I have tracked occasionally, and would have liked something a little better to track and daily.
It was quite clear from the beginning this car is not a track machine. I honestly wouldn’t ever track the plaid without trackmode and better brakes.
No they aren't. A vocal few are. A vocal few who are taking their 5000lb family sedans to the track, where it has no place being. And thats ignoring the fact that every production car that is going to be tracked should have upgraded brakes.
Even you said they are good for 6 consecutive back to back 60-0 stops. That's 5 more than anyone should ever need.
I agree, because a 0-150 mph in 9 seconds belongs on the street With the stock brakes.
I can pull up 10+ YT videos right now that say the brakes are scary.
I am done with this conversation.
I didn’t buy this beast because of this and many other issues.
nothing more to add to this conversation.
JADCa
Member
The problem is not the brakes, it is the speed is way more than the drivers are use to. Bigger brakes DO NOT help the car stop better. ALL bigger brakes do is provide better cooling for repeated stopping. So anyone who is doing repeated stops to prove the brakes are bad doesn't understand the situation. Bigger brakes are heavier (assuming similar materials) which hurt acceleration, corning, braking and range. In exchange for all those losses, you can do more repeated hard braking.
For true track use, there are virtually no cars made (Porsche GT3 and GT4 carbon brakes are adequate, but are expensive and noisy) that have adequate stock brakes, and for good reason. Track brakes are miserable unless you are on a track. It would be dumb for Tesla to put 'adequate' track brakes on a 1000hp street car that almost no-one will track. The car has EXCELLENT brakes for what it is meant to do. For non-street use, modify your own car appropriately.
For true track use, there are virtually no cars made (Porsche GT3 and GT4 carbon brakes are adequate, but are expensive and noisy) that have adequate stock brakes, and for good reason. Track brakes are miserable unless you are on a track. It would be dumb for Tesla to put 'adequate' track brakes on a 1000hp street car that almost no-one will track. The car has EXCELLENT brakes for what it is meant to do. For non-street use, modify your own car appropriately.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
2023 Tesla Model S Review, Pricing, and Specs
Largely responsible for the expanding selection of EVs on sale today, the 2023 Tesla Model S is still competitive and desirable among electric luxury cars.www.caranddriver.com
2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs
Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.
I have read almost all your posts, on this new S I Rented a Turo and objectively went through all points we are talking about here.
I did my comparison with my model 3 performance side by side with the refresh S. I would literally get out of one car and get in the other and drive.
I found most of these points shockingly to be very equal.
1. Road noise, used a DB meter I blamed the S 19” tires to make it louder.
2. audio sound. Maybe doing something wrong but almost all the sound seems to come from above the dash in the new S.
3. Lighter headliner in the 3 along with a windshield that’s just taller gives the feeling of more space related to the lowest seating position. (6”3 and a half it’s very obvious for me on this test)
4. I did 8 hard braking from 60-0 back to back in the performance and s, after 6 of them I didn’t feel completely confident the S was giving me full braking (braking faded badly) actually never felt very good from the start. My performance had no difference in braking feel.
5. steering not as tight in the S giving it less feel for sure. I blame the steering rate for this. (larger in the S)
6. Missing things like energy graph, trackmode, cannot adjust following distance on the yoke. ( unfinished UI) I rate a car on what it has, not what it’s going to have.
7. Plaid is definitely the best if speed is everything, outside of speed and exterior looks ( and wagon practicality) I think the m3 is a better car. not worth the big $ upgrade, and might not even be better at any price for a DD.
William do you have access to go drive a model 3 performance? I am aware you had one, If you could you might be shocked on the points I bring up.
After my turo and almost 500 miles I drove on my test drive refresh S the decision was very easy for me. I kept my 3pd canceled my Plaid and ordered a new performance 3.
to be fair I also drive 12/6 o’clock sometimes so the yoke was very annoying. Stalks make sense to me. Rear screen = me gives ZF, ventilation seats get lots of stuff stuck in them. Annoying had this before.
my requirements were the best DD for the price and Is hard to me the most popular selling EV on the market.
I've driven a Model 3 many times since getting my Plaid. Its not in the same league as the S. Not in terms of comfort, refinement, interior space (I'm 6'5" and this is the first car I can put the rear seats down without moving my front seat forward first), quieter ride etc. The software updates are coming for the new S, and they'll be here soon, I expect. The 3 is at the end of its usable life for significant upgrades with the Atom chip and the lag on the interface is just annoying to me these days. When they switch it to the Ryzen chipset (should do at some point given reports out of China) it'll be better. The backup camera lag on the current 3/Y drives me nuts etc.
I get you have it out for the new S, - I mean heck your signature now even contains all the things you hate about it (not what signatures are designed for, by the way). The vast majority of us love the S, think it's a phenomenal car, despite its QC issues. I couldn't go back to the 3 after having the S, despite there being a lot of things about the 3 I love. The S is just more practical, more comfortable, and just madness fast.
Mr. William I have read your post and Jeb almost every day, that being said I am not retired so dealing with tesla would be hard. The list of problems just doesn’t fit in with my life right now. I own many cars so In the future if the Plaid is something I would like then is will be added.
on the other hand the roadster is a guarantee!
200+ guys trying to flip this car, many in current inventory also tells me that early adoption of the Plaid was by people more willing to accept some of the minor issues.
in the meantime I will continue to do donuts in the snow with my pd3 till the next Tesla with trackmode is available.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Oh don't get me wrong - these new cars have issues. So did the 3s and Ys when they first came out. Now, people flipping cars is standard. People are flipping all sorts of cars right now due to low inventory and low demand. Used 3s and Ys are selling like hotcakes. As for donuts in the snow, sure - if that's your goal in a 4-5000lb car, then fine. Track Mode is coming soon for the S anyway, - Elon has said (though of course his timeline is protracted, as always).
I bought the Plaid because I love the journey these cars take. The 3 was the same for me when I bought that several years back. The evolution of software updates was a ton of fun for me, but recently the 3 hasn't seen any meaningful changes. It's pretty close to what you see is what you get. from here on out, especially likely with the dated Atom chipset. The new S is just getting going. We'll see a lot of changes over time, and that's part of the fun for me.
What's not fun is my car in service so much (again today, yay!), but I'm probably an outlier. Most are very happy with their cars. I would never go back to a 3 unless it gained more power, more refinement, more grip etc. The S goes round corners faster than 3 P wished it did. Its lateral grip is nothing short of extraordinary. And if I wanted more, - more track-ability etc - I wouldn't have an 3 or an S. I'd have something half the weight.
You prefer the M3P. That's awesome and you saved a lot of money by not getting a Plaid. The M3P is the best Tesla for you.
Is there a reason you want everyone else to agree with you? Not everyone shares your situation, priorities, values, or preferences. It's ok for others to prefer a Model S or even, gasp, a Model S Plaid and feel it's the better car. That certainly doesn't mean you need to agree with them. Better for them doesn't mean better for you.
Don't let the internet get you wrapped around the axle.
Ok start with cabin size. 28cu vs 25cu and the trunk or hatchback s is the difference. So the cabin is the same. Legroom and headroom of the 3 drivers is actually more.
quieter ride, again drove them both and really hard to say, I would give the S the win but barely.
performance? Are we doing a autocross?
vented seating vs comfortable seating? 3 seats are better in my opinion. Again drove them both.
I did a 2 day turo with the S and canceled my Plaid. I really wonder how many others would have done the same given nobody’s really had a chance to test drive before they buy.
now we can do some of the things I see the 3 does better.
round steering wheel, stalks. > yoke hepatic touch buttons
UI on the 3> S UI is a mess
breaking 3 > S is scary
suspension 3 solid > s bouncy air rides
trackmode 3 > S maybe some day?
price 3 performance > S double the price really? I believe you can get a Plaid this time next year used for 100k I mean it’s a inventory car right now.
just my opinion.
not to mention the boat loads of problems you have had with your car.
just my opinion.
this is a older post I am sure you didn’t read.
Opinion.
I rented a turo S and drove it 469 miles. my opinion was a comparison Side by side same two days.
nothing more to say.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
As said previously, all depends what your looking for! Some people like a smaller car to park and maneuver…some people like the larger chassis and more touring feel.
Comparing these 2 is like a Bimmer M3 to a 750Li M. Not even the same leaugue so why bother?
Comparing these 2 is like a Bimmer M3 to a 750Li M. Not even the same leaugue so why bother?
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
I have an LR order but waiting to drive my buddy’s plaid in a few weeks..not for speed but for having some time on the yoke. If I don’t like it, order cancelled and I may just buy a 2019 Performance S Raven.
Current Plaid is more of a high performance GT class vehicle than a track monster. Believe that was what the Plaid + was intended to be.
Amateurs, taking street cars to the track will always discover their weak points. They tend to abuse them. The brakes will never be strong enough, suspension never firm enough, tires never stickey enough. They want their cars to make them the fastest on the track to asuage their Egos.
Professional drivers will take it to another level. They will drive the cars at speed. Taking all strong and weak points into consideration and turn in the fastest lap times possible within the constraints of the vehice. They know how to save their brakes by giving them a breather when possible, how to not overdrive their tires, power steering, differential temps, etc to use the cars to their ultimate potential. In an EV they will take advantage of the regeneration capability to save on brakes while adding amps to the batteries.
A pro will comment of the strengths and weaknesses of their steeds, but most always drive smoothly with compassion for their equipment. They will turn in consistant times and most always be far quicker than the ham fisted amatures.
Amateurs, taking street cars to the track will always discover their weak points. They tend to abuse them. The brakes will never be strong enough, suspension never firm enough, tires never stickey enough. They want their cars to make them the fastest on the track to asuage their Egos.
Professional drivers will take it to another level. They will drive the cars at speed. Taking all strong and weak points into consideration and turn in the fastest lap times possible within the constraints of the vehice. They know how to save their brakes by giving them a breather when possible, how to not overdrive their tires, power steering, differential temps, etc to use the cars to their ultimate potential. In an EV they will take advantage of the regeneration capability to save on brakes while adding amps to the batteries.
A pro will comment of the strengths and weaknesses of their steeds, but most always drive smoothly with compassion for their equipment. They will turn in consistant times and most always be far quicker than the ham fisted amatures.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Confirmation bias is perhaps the most powerful psychological force humans are susceptible to. Duke is out to convince himself, not anyone else.
I asked Tesla, and many on tmc if people are allowed to test drive the refresh S. The answer was shocking (No) nobody’s test drove the car beforehand.
I did a Turo, (S) 2 days 469 miles, didn’t take much convincing (Psychological) after that. Was the car nice? ( yes) was it twice as nice as my 2019 performance 3 That I have put 42000 trouble free miles on. (Meh) This is my opinion based on a 469 mile test drive.
( the yoke would have been something I couldn’t live with, very wide with a large steering ratio was the dealbreaker (Period). Seems like most on here can live with it, (not much of a choice now) I respect that!!! wish them a enjoyable experience with the Quickest production car ever made! ( just not the car for me).
Midnightsun
Active Member
As mentioned the S LR is even faster than the 3 performance so why are you looking at a Plaid? Buy an S LR and a 3 performance for the same price as a Plaid. Now you can drive both for as long as you like and decide which one you will keep. I doubt you will lose any money on the sale.
All I can say is Elon is a
Elon Musk is a Marketing genius!
how’s that?
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