Model S Plaid

[sorka]

Source: I've personally done laps on Laguna Seca & various other tracks.

I disagree and I've done dozens of track days at both Thunder Hill and Laguna Seca.

 

[wenkan]

So this new “plaid” Model S broke the record at Laguna Seca by 1 second. Previous record was from Model 3 Performance... It’s actually quite disappointing and unimpressive to see only 1 second shaved off or am I missing something here?

The previous record was referring to a Jaguar, not Model 3's record. Model 3 was using racing slicks to do 1:37, with stock tires it can do 1:41. Plaid S is using Cup2 R which is still streetable track tires, with racing slicks and a professional driver it should do sub 1:33 lap time.

 

[Chaserr]

What I was suggesting is if it’s possible for users to retrofit the 3’s steering wheel on the S

I don't think we'd want to lose our additional button controls but if they're compatible a lot of 3 owners might be able to retrofit an S wheel to their car.

 

[Gixx1300R]

...in race terms. Over the course of an entire race of dozens of laps.

We're talking about comparing street cars here that aren't turning course record-setting times for a single lap. 1 second difference on street car times on a single lap isn't substantial in any way.

Source: I've personally done laps on Laguna Seca & various other tracks.

win by an inch or a mile, a win is a win and second place is the first loser

 

[Greengolfer]

For a car the size and weight of an S, one second faster than a smaller, lighter, sportier car seems pretty impressive.

 

[Brando]

... I was along the lines of that it was the new chassis for all ...

Chassis ?? That is the old ICE model of auto design.
We are now onto "skate board" model of auto design. Suspension can change, details of battery pack can change. But calling it a chassis change? I don't agree.

Thinking like this helps explain why legacy auto makers can't compete against 2013 rear wheel drive 85 sized battery Model S after 7 years?
How many more years will it take? Tesla clearly the performance king - others may well compete on other fronts just not performance [acceleration, miles per charge, efficiency, SuperChargers, crash safety, software updates].

Only an observer. Never have bought a new car. So I'm not actually part of the "marketing group". Does this help explain why I think the ~$4billion spent by each Ford and GM [total ~$8 billion/year] is a waste of money. Seldom watch the ads, but the ones I have seen, seem pathetic to me. So over the last 10 years the ~$80 billion some should have gone to batteries and electrification of their vehicles.

(go ahead and search for Tesla R&D which is actually spent on product research and not marketing)

 

[SSonnentag]

I suspect that the two rear motors have different reduction gear ratios to help with high-speed acceleration.

 

[Chaserr]

Chassis ?? That is the old ICE model of auto design.
We are now onto "skate board" model of auto design. Suspension can change, details of battery pack can change. But calling it a chassis change? I don't agree.

Tesla uses a normal old chassis design. A very strong aluminum chassis, but still a chassis. The "skateboard" you see in stores is a chopped up chassis with the top removed. They didn't even standardize on a specific method of chopping them up which is why you see so many variations on where they did the cutting, some removed more than others. The battery itself is a stressed chassis component so major changes to the battery geometry would require chassis changes to retain the same strength.

 

[DukeofURL]

Tesla clearly the performance king - others may well compete on other fronts just not performance [acceleration, miles per charge, efficiency, SuperChargers, crash safety, software updates].

I agree with you that Tesla is the current leader at your listed benefits, but "performance" in the context of cars includes [acceleration, suspension, brakes, chassis upgrades to increase roadholding Gs (which Teslas are already good at due to low center of gravity) as well as durability (such as cooling and ability to run hard laps)]. I hope Tesla increases all of these for my next car in 3-4 years.

 

[sillydriver]

I suspect that the two rear motors have different reduction gear ratios to help with high-speed acceleration.

Interesting comment. I think the conventional wisdom has assumed that two identically-geared rear motors each drive one rear wheel, allowing torque vectoring, but I always thought that would risk a crash if either of the motors failed unless there was an elaborate clutch or limited-slip differential between them just to guard against this. I like your idea more: have only one geared for maximum low-speed torque, which is traction limited anyway, and the other for high-speed power and efficiency. Then have them drive a common axle. The reason for having two rear motors would be either better cooling, packaging, manufacturability or the like.

 

[Brando]

I agree with you that Tesla is the current leader at your listed benefits, but "performance" in the context of cars includes [acceleration, suspension, brakes, chassis upgrades to increase roadholding Gs (which Teslas are already good at due to low center of gravity) as well as durability (such as cooling and ability to run hard laps)]. I hope Tesla increases all of these for my next car in 3-4 years.

Improvement at Tesla is continuous - continuous improvement - so we are not sure WHEN Tesla will offer what you are looking for.
But I think when you are ready to look for a replacement, Tesla will probably have the best offering and perhaps best value too!

 

[Ostrichsak]

I disagree and I've done dozens of track days at both Thunder Hill and Laguna Seca.

We can agree to disagree then because it's effectively like saying that a 1 second margin of victory between two cars running 14 second quarter miles is just as impressive as a 1 second margin of victory between two top fuel dragsters running three second quarter miles. The race may be run on the same track but that's where the similarities end and the larger margin is more impressive the lower the time is all I'm saying. I love the Model S as much as the next guy & prefer it over the 3 but claiming it's anything other than a fairly close margin of victory at those lap times that would barely be noticeable on the street is disingenuous.

 

[sorka]

We can agree to disagree then because it's effectively like saying that a 1 second margin of victory between two cars running 14 second quarter miles is just as impressive as a 1 second margin of victory between two top fuel dragsters running three second quarter miles. The race may be run on the same track but that's where the similarities end and the larger margin is more impressive the lower the time is all I'm saying. I love the Model S as much as the next guy & prefer it over the 3 but claiming it's anything other than a fairly close margin of victory at those lap times that would barely be noticeable on the street is disingenuous.

Both the Porsche and The S will have been driven by expert drivers that know that course and will have driven those specific cars many times in addition so that their times are repeatable within a fraction of a second. If you really want to compare cars, you'd do what they did and then swap drivers but those drivers would have to be free of conflict for it to be valid.

 

[Brando]

I'm waiting for race results at NASCAR so I know which car to buy. Don't trust local auto-cross.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Both the Porsche and The S will have been driven by expert drivers that know that course and will have driven those specific cars many times in addition so that their times are repeatable within a fraction of a second. If you really want to compare cars, you'd do what they did and then swap drivers but those drivers would have to be free of conflict for it to be valid.

This post proves you don't even know what point I was contesting previously. I'm not contesting which car was/is faster or how they got it. I'm contesting the posts where a couple of people were saying that a 1-second lap difference between a Model S and a Model 3 was an eternity. It's not. It's not the same as a 1-second hot lap difference between Rossi and Marquez for instance.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I'm waiting for race results at NASCAR so I know which car to buy. Don't trust local auto-cross.

On one hand, I feel like this ePeen measuring contest on The 'Ring is silly and doesn't really apply to what's most important in the real world. Even as someone who values performance over most other aspects of vehicles.

On the other hand, I feel like this is the same type of crap that has been going on between established car manufacturers for decades now so from that stand point I guess it's good news that a maker like Porsche sees Tesla as enough of a threat to the throne that they're challenging them. Silly little battle but maybe in the grand scheme of things it's a good sign for the proverbial war.

 

[sorka]

This post proves you don't even know what point I was contesting previously. I'm not contesting which car was/is faster or how they got it. I'm contesting the posts where a couple of people were saying that a 1-second lap difference between a Model S and a Model 3 was an eternity. It's not. It's not the same as a 1-second hot lap difference between Rossi and Marquez for instance.

Nope. My point is that even though they are radically different cars, the same drivers are going to practice them to the point of sub 100 ms lap consistency. 1 second is a huge difference and over the course of a race is going to add up.

 

[computerchuck]

On the other hand, I feel like this is the same type of crap that has been going on between established car manufacturers for decades now so from that stand point I guess it's good news that a maker like Porsche sees Tesla as enough of a threat to the throne that they're challenging them. Silly little battle but maybe in the grand scheme of things it's a good sign for the proverbial war.

Ramius:
Well, perhaps. Maybe something good will come from it. A little
revolution, now and then, is a healthy thing, don't you think?

 

[Ostrichsak]

Nope. My point is that even though they are radically different cars, the same drivers are going to practice them to the point of sub 100 ms lap consistency. 1 second is a huge difference and over the course of a race is going to add up.

Exactly! Over the course of a multi-lap race. Which I already said. This isn't that. We're talking about a single timed lap between 5,000lb four-door sedans. lol A 1-second difference on a single lap isn't huge.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Ramius:
Well, perhaps. Maybe something good will come from it. A little
revolution, now and then, is a healthy thing, don't you think?

I can't wait for [insert any other car manufacturer] to come along and challenge the EV throne to spur Tesla to actually improve. Other than hardware it seems as though they're spiraling as a company and really need that added competition to shore up the loose ends that, as of right now, just look like losses on a P&L ledger.